Property line on Champlain?

[Matt]

I need help in trying to find where the "public" land is around Champlain. I seem to recall that any land underwater during a certain Lake level was considered public land. Does anyone know where I can find specifics about this? Thanks!

Matt

[Danl851]

I remember a case back some time ago in Missisquoi Bay, maybe even 25 years ago. Some fisherman were given tickets for being on someone's land in the spring. They were in a boat. It finally went to court and the ruling was that they were entitled to fish Lake Champlain to the high water mark. I remember it very well because I knew one of the men ticketed. Not sure where to find the exact info but if I remember correctly it's a federal regulation.

[Matt]

Yes but I'm wondering what level that line is, and how it works if you're on foot. If you access the land owners property line from the Lake, can you stand on the first few feet of dry land, assuming it is underwater during flood levels?

Also, what if the land owner builds up a "bank" on the end of their property line by using rocks, but that "bank" they've made is underwater during flood levels, is it considered public land even though the rocks were purchased by the owner?

The "property" in question would be the Ferry launch in the Islands. We were on foot, fishing for bowfin near shore. After getting my buddy into his bowfin on a fly (a 32" beast) we were yelled at by Ferry workers that we were not allowed to be "fishing over here". Because it was, "private" property. The property in question was the rocks to the left of the picture, the ones next to the wall. We were standing there while fishing. Aside from being pathetic about it, I was outraged that they were even bugging us about it. In any case, I'd love to find out the legalities of this, and if they have any right preventing us from standing on those rocks to fish. Those rocks are most definitely below the flood levels as you can see on the side of the wall.



For reference, Lake Level was 96 ft yesterday, and it looks like flood stage is 100. Only further proves those lines on the concrete wall are the "flood stage" lines. I wonder who I should contact about this? I do not plan on letting a few disgruntled workers ruin my fishing due to power trips.

[C-Hawk]

They probably consider it a security issue.

[Matt]

They probably consider it a security issue.

How so? If the law states anything underwater is public property at the 100 ft lake stage, how can they legally tell someone that they cannot fish while standing next to that wall, granted those rocks are well inundated while the lake is at 100 ft.

[Boatless in BTV]

I need help in trying to find where the "public" land is around Champlain. I seem to recall that any land underwater during a certain Lake level was considered public land. Does anyone know where I can find specifics about this? Thanks!

Matt,

Unfortunately, as I understand it, you've got the rule backwards. The law is that land is private property to the average low-water mark. This is a summary from UVM: http://www.uvm.edu/crs/resources/citizens/water.pdf

Whether or not they could order you away if you were standing in the water is another question as Article 67 of the Vermont Constitution (http://www.usconstitution.net/vtconst.html#Section67) guarantees the right to fish in all "boatable" waters of the state that are not entirely enclosed private property. That would be an interesting question to pose to the Fish and Wildlife Department, I would think.

[Matt]

I need help in trying to find where the "public" land is around Champlain. I seem to recall that any land underwater during a certain Lake level was considered public land. Does anyone know where I can find specifics about this? Thanks!

Matt,

Unfortunately, as I understand it, you've got the rule backwards. The law is that land is private property to the average low-water mark. This is a summary from UVM: http://www.uvm.edu/crs/resources/citizens/water.pdf

Whether or not they could order you away if you were standing in the water is another question as Article 67 of the Vermont Constitution (http://www.usconstitution.net/vtconst.html#Section67) guarantees the right to fish in all "boatable" waters of the state that are not entirely enclosed private property. That would be an interesting question to pose to the Fish and Wildlife Department, I would think.

I found the same thing last night. Thank you. Looks like I'll be standing in the water from now on to avoid those knuckleheads.

[Captain Paul]

Matt we went thru this well Goose hunting and I am pretty sure it is around 93 feet were private property ends

[Matt]

Matt we went thru this well Goose hunting and I am pretty sure it is around 93 feet were private property ends

Unfortunately, it is. Guess I'll have to get wet next time I want to fish that spot without being harassed.

[Troutman567]

All very interesting responses however on Lake Champlain the rules are bit different. You see there is a Federal Agency/Branch of Military that patrols and enforces the waters of Lake Champlain called the U.S. Coast Guard. Which make it a federal waterway, which overrules state legislation. So the Federal Law for for private property rulings is as stated. Your property line ends at the High Water Mark. Thereafter it is public, or the waters of Lake Champlain.Tide nor salt water enter into the debate. So if you're so inclined to take something to the courts I suggest find someone with Federal experience because it's a different fish when dealing with the Federal statutes.

[Gecha (Gerry)]

Matt, you brought a very interesting subject.
Definitely would like to know the official status.

[Mistress]

For as long as I can remember the public ROW was high water mark and I too had a run in with the owner of Savage Island when I beached my boat for lunch 20 years ago and VSP had to educate him on the laws of federally regulated water ways like Champlain. A while back the money grubbing SOB's in Montpelier passed legislation that gave property owners rights to the low water mark, which in turn increased the taxable square footage of waterfront property. Criminal in my opinion but the Birkenstock wearing crowd keeps outnumbering us at the polls!