To probe, or not to probe. Temp/speed?

[fishhuntadventure]

Thank you popster, CI, digit, fm, marknfish, etc.

There is a lot to be gleaned out of your comments. I am convinced that a down-probe would be a good addition to the arsenal; just was looking for more details and ideas to digest.

Just like when I added the Lite Bite: I knew it was a good tool but using it hard and well involves a lot more than just knowing how to rig it and setting it out there. Steepening up the learning curve by asking a lot of questions made it become extremely effective beyond my expectations and gave me a good baseline to put my own spin on it. Although I don't have the discretionary Franklins and Grants to add downspeed right now, I figure anything I learn now will pay big dividends when I do next year or so.

Along those lines would still like to hear some other people have some weigh-ins on this.

[Crazy Ivan]

[quote="fishhuntadventure"]Thank you popster, CI, digit, fm, marknfish, etc.
I am convinced that a down-probe would be a good addition to the arsenal; just was looking for more details and ideas to digest.

So What Details........ What Ideas...... No one else is going to put there two cents in!!!!! What Do you want to know???? Spit it out if you can!!!!
If I lead a horse to water can I make him drink? I think Not..... You need a probe for consistant big count salmon days over the deep water area from Barber Point to sloop island (SEPTEMBER THRU MARCH) or really good forgining friends. This is a fact!!!!! That way you can figure things out on your own and not be a SEAGULL.
TODD

[fishhuntadventure]

....So What Details........ What Ideas...... No one else is going to put there two cents in!!!!! What Do you want to know???? Spit it out if you can!!!!.....

Seagull? Hmm.

Anyway, what details? Well, like these from a Bill Bale video last night - stuff that makes sense but I had not thought of:

He talked about always making a point to troll against the current (at the ball) - never with and rarely across the underwater current. Don't just hit target speed- hit target speed against the current. That kind of detail almost makes it seem like a waste of time to go fishing at all without a probe 8-O

The other thing he mentioned regarding probes that was along the lines of an idea or detail I did not know was the idea of scheduling your day according to the target's schedule. He basically said he doesn't necessarily fish "comfort" temps of the target- often he fishes the comfort temps of the predominant bait and he makes sure he is on the bait on the feeding times of the salmon. He fishes where the alewives are (as far as temps) and not where the salmon are comfortable (down deep and 42F) where they are not active.

I mean we've all read the posts where we talk about salmon leaving the comfort zone to feed but he put a new spin on it- more than something to know, it was something to do on purpose.

Again- was looking for a good discussion. I am entirely convinced that catching fish with a probe is a whole lot more involved than merely achieving "x" mph at "y" depth. It's not that I found anything lacking in what you or anyone else posted- but with each post I get another nugget to think about. To be honest my little study of the idea of down-speed has been eye-opening. However, I did think there would be a lot more than just you guys posting on this topic and was looking forward to others' questions!

As for me, I genuinely appreciate the info. When I add down speed/temp I don't want to spend a month or the summer making it work, I want to feel competent out of the gate. And I usually have a number of people a year that I show how to rig something or how to get a salmon to hit. There are folks who post on this board who I have helped! Just looking to draw from the well a little as I have no problem contributing when I am confident at something.

Going fishing today! Yipee! The whole time I am going to be wondering about my down-speed...

[fishhuntadventure]

...Going fishing today! Yipee! The whole time I am going to be wondering about my down-speed...

I didn't make it out until this afternoon due a door that needed to be installed. And I did spend the whole time watching my rods and the downrigger cable for anything suggesting current.

[Crazy Ivan]

Mother of god you are Killing me....... In a good way....I just laughed so much that my 16 hour hell day at work disappeared.
Todd

[Digitroll Fishing]

There must be an algorithm out there for the angle of the dangle and using a bomb pop? That would solve the mystery of the perfect lure and perfect angle of the cable. ie. perfect speed, perfect temp., current vectors effect on mass moving thru liquid, and so on and so on. I need to revisit my Vt Tech physics book. My professor in Physics 1 and 2 was a fisherman in 1991.

[FATHEAD]

Buy a probe catch more fish simple as that! Lure speed and water temp at the ball are what puts the big boys in my boat and lots of other fish but hey if you want to go by gps speed good luck

[Wallyandre (Andre)]

[Digitroll Fishing]

With the new updated X-4 Fishhawk coming out in the Spring you will have true depth at the ball.

X4 = More and larger salmon. 10-4 Fat head and Ivan!

[raz]

With the new updated X-4 Fishhawk coming out in the Spring you will have true depth at the ball.

X4 = More and larger salmon. 10-4 Fat head and Ivan!

Heck yeah!

[fishhuntadventure]

Thank you Andre for the trig chart. That would be handy to have taped inside the tackle box top!

digitroll/CI/FH etc.: good information and extreme confidence in the down-speed indicator being shown here. There will be one in my future- just likely not the near future. The "stalled" bigger boat project needs to get back on track first. That will open up the ways and days I can use the probe. My little Niagara - while an effective fishing tool- is really maxed out. I really need a bigger platform to take full advantage of my equipment and be able to host enough people to run 6 or 8 rods without having to crawl over each other to reel in a fish.

Conclusion? Down speed can be a critical component to assure proper lure action due to currents. Other implications are that speed and direction can effect the fish depending on whether they are active or neutral and temperature breaks (density breaks) can effect lure action regardless of the presence of current(s) or not. While one can catch fish without a probe, consistency and numbers of fish boated are ten-fold over fishing without a probe.

I appreciate all the various poster's taking the time to write and share their knowledge!

Good fishing to all!

[fishhuntadventure]

I had an interesting opportunity as an 'observer' at the Oswego Pro-Am this past weekend. (thanks, Matt!)

It was awesome to watch skilled and experienced fishermen on two different boats set up the gauntlet. On day two I was aboard a boat that had one of the new Fish Hawk units on one rigger and "the other" brand on a second. It was very educational and revealing to watch the two units function simultaneously in real time. Watching three brands over the weekend let me draw some conclusions. The 'detail' I was looking for was answered for sure.

My conclusion from the weekend? A Fish Hawk TD and a Moor Subtroll are probably the best expenditure for the money. The downrigger is pretty easy to calculate the running depth at speed, but the TD gives detail to the coppers and wire divers that the probe or sonar just can't. For the price of the Fish Hawk you can have both a Subtroll and a TD and have all the info you need. The TD probably won't see frequent use but nothing else but banging bottom will tell you what it can!

The answer for me is definitely to probe. It takes the guesswork out.

By the way, viewing different units: The Subtroll doesn't jump around at all. The Fish Hawk often leaves one with no choice but to stare at the unit for a number of seconds in order to mentally calculate an average speed as the numbers bounce around. The Moor gauge doesn't do that.

I have a hard-wired rig that I assembled myself that I can send down as far as 80' to find temps by clipping it to the down rigger, but blow-back makes it a pain to use. But it works very well especially if you drop it down while not under way. Adding downspeed would be as dramatic as when I changed from my old 90-pixel Eagle to a 480 pixel resolution- it was like getting eyeglasses for the first time after years of needing them... That should be next year's "big purchase."

Looking forward to getting out a lot this fall - the summer is burning by but i did manage 3/5 salmon on Monday evening. With water temps on top in the 80s in places, pulling deep fish into that seems almost wrong.

Thanks again- Mark

[tuckhunts87]

my numbers of fish have dramaticly increased sinced purchasing a fish hawk

[Dipsey]

A must have tool for me. A good example is while fishing Lake Ontario one day we were on the fish heavy, just a fantastic day, water temps were ideal down 60 over 100. The next morning those way points and depths were like bath water, no fish at all. We kept probing and kept probing, finally we found good temp down 140 over 500 and it was game on again. It is amazing how much your down speed can very from surface speed also, occasionally I have to force myself to believe the probe! None of them are cheap but they can sure help improve your success rate.

[MADSIERRA]

Mother of god you are Killing me....... In a good way....I just laughed so much that my 16 hour hell day at work disappeared.
Todd

LMFAO.......gud 1!