Economics 101: 4 riggers vs. 2 riggers.

[digitroll (ron)]

We ran 2 electric Cannon's for 20 years on our 19 ft Sea Nymph. The last 8 years I have been running 4. When I sold my 20 year old plus Digitroll's recently and decided to go with the new redesigned Digitroll's with many improvements I came to a cross roads with my 19 ft. 10" Starcraft Fishmaster. The decision was to go back to 2 riggers after 8 years running 4 riggers. It's something that has been on my bucket list for awhile and here is my reasons:

I typically fish with 2 licenses in my boat about 90% of the time and the new rule for NY going back to 2 rods a person on Champlain fishing 4 lines it's important for me to be diverse rather than all the eggs in one basket fishing 4 riggers even if it's bumpy.

Diminishing Returns:

Back to an economics lesson learned at UVM. It's not about the cost of 2 vs. 4 riggers but rather the concept of "diminishing returns". That 1st candy bar tasted better than the 5th candy bar. With boats greater than 22 feet 4 riggers are fine and crews of 3 or 4 people. No problem there. The desire to look like a battle ship with 4 riggers and catching 30 cookie cutters no longer was the goal. If that is one's goal that is fine. Dragging 4 weights under the boat creates quite a disturbance that at times can reduce the chance of a big fish coming into the spread and hook up.


Vertical Integration vs. Horizontal integration:


Fishing with Lite Bites, Dipsy's, Big Jon discs, and Offshore inline boards have created a horizontal opportunity that enhances the chance for a bigger salmon on a more consistent basis. Vertical integration vs. horizontal integration another economic term as the metaphor here. By diversifying your spread horizontally East and West of the boats "Cone of Disturbance" is the goal.


Micro vs. Macro:

30 cookie cutters vs one 4-5 lb. salmon or bigger. Less is more! The trend has been larger lures for these bigger fish in the last few years. Different delivery systems used on a horizontal plane can be more productive for large fish. Something to think about when either deciding on adding a 3rd and 4th rigger or downsizing from 4 to 2 riggers.





4 Slide Divers:

[Hairbone]

I see a twilly tip Are you running wire on that rod?

[charlietuna]

We ran 2 electric Cannon's for 20 years on our 19 ft Sea Nymph. The last 8 years I have been running 4. When I sold my 20 year old plus Digitroll's recently and decided to go with the new redesigned Digitroll's with many improvements I came to a cross roads with my 19 ft. 10" Starcraft Fishmaster. The decision was to go back to 2 riggers after 8 years running 4 riggers. It's something that has been on my bucket list for awhile and here is my reasons:

I typically fish with 2 licenses in my boat about 90% of the time and the new rule for NY going back to 2 rods a person on Champlain fishing 4 lines it's important for me to be diverse rather than all the eggs in one basket fishing 4 riggers even if it's bumpy.

Diminishing Returns:

Back to an economics lesson learned at UVM. It's not about the cost of 2 vs. 4 riggers but rather the concept of "diminishing returns". That 1st candy bar tasted better than the 5th candy bar. With boats greater than 22 feet 4 riggers are fine and crews of 3 or 4 people. No problem there. The desire to look like a battle ship with 4 riggers and catching 30 cookie cutters no longer was the goal. If that is one's goal that is fine. Dragging 4 weights under the boat creates quite a disturbance that at times can reduce the chance of a big fish coming into the spread and hook up.


Vertical Integration vs. Horizontal integration:


Fishing with Lite Bites, Dipsy's, Big Jon discs, and Offshore inline boards have created a horizontal opportunity that enhances the chance for a bigger salmon on a more consistent basis. Vertical integration vs. horizontal integration another economic term as the metaphor here. By diversifying your spread horizontally East and West of the boats "Cone of Disturbance" is the goal.


Micro vs. Macro:

30 cookie cutters vs one 4-5 lb. salmon or bigger. Less is more! The trend has been larger lures for these bigger fish in the last few years. Different delivery systems used on a horizontal plane can be more productive for large fish. Something to think about when either deciding on adding a 3rd and 4th rigger or downsizing from 4 to 2 riggers.





4 Slide Divers:

Could you put it in lamens terms?

2 riggers or two? Riggers draw to much disturbance? But you say the cone of disturbance is good?
I run two riggers.
Since reading this forum, I have added slide divers as well as lead core.
I see there are a jet diver available, that looks like they may be easier to use then the slide diver??? Just looking for anything that might get me into a program for me?
There are so many options, and so many folks here with different twists.
I have a limited fishing schedule, but hang on every word of advice here, and try new things. Maybe I should slow down and focus on just one thing?
Thank you!

CT

[digitroll (ron)]

Charlie,

My thesis in the title is about the age old question: Is 4 riggers better than 2 and putting your lures in stealth mode out and away for larger fish from the boat's turbulence from the hull and the rigger cannonballs ie. "Cone of Disturbance" using other modes of delivery systems especially when your limited to 4 rods and two fishermen per vessel.

Most of us have boats 22 ft or less. We tried the 4 rigger experiment for 8 years. If your fishing for quantity for smaller fish then 4 riggers are fine. However, using other delivery systems like Lite bite, Mini-discs, Tadpoles, Inline boards are a much better stealthy approach for larger fish fishing outside the boats "Cone of disturbance". Diversification similar to investing in the stock market is essential. 4 riggers take up a lot of gunnel space and can be liability at times running with limited space on a smaller boat under 22 ft. When your fishing 1-2 people I like to keep my options open when limited to 4 rods. I don't even run sliders or cheaters anymore. I don't stack two riggers while just running a clean rod on each. Keeping it simple as Capt. Ernie of Fish Doctors charters has taught me over the years. In years past the goal was to stuff 3 people in a boat sometimes 4 and put all this gear in the water as much as 8 lines sometimes to feel like we were fishing. These days I enjoy one person as a guest and challenge ourselves to limiting our tackle to 4 rods. The "Value Add" of adding more gear by adding more bodies in the boat or adding sliders on each rod becomes a point of diminishing returns like the candy bar example we learned about in Economic studies.

Does this work for everyone? No. If your limited with 2 people on a boat it's also fun to experiment with other delivery systems. This commentary is a collection of collaborations with many people I have spoken with and collecting information over the years. Yes, I tried the 4 rigger experiment and happy to go back to two. Trying new stuff and adjusting is half the fun of fishing so it's not boating and truly fishing.

I know one individual out there that just runs two riggers on his 22' Pursuit. Even with 3-4 people on his boat and never more than 2 rods. He has been following this philosophy for 30 years plus. This very simple program works for him. It's all about tailoring what works for you. Another one who fishes alone a lot has a 23.5 ft Boston Whaler hard top boat with 2 riggers only. 4 riggers may look more sexy on a boat but running two with optional delivery systems running in tandem with crews of two people will put quality fish in the boat when your limited to 4 rods. That is my opinion and others I have spoken with. Back to running two riggers was an easy choice. We have so many delivery system options now then 8 years ago when I thought 4 riggers was the answer. It's all about diversification. 4 strategically placed lures vertically and horizontally helps in pursuit of larger salmon.

Hope this helps clarify.

I run both wire and braid in combination on my Lite bites.

[Captain Paul]

I have to agree with you to some point Ron there are some days that less is more

[JDK]

I'm new here and suspect my opinion isn't worth much but I agree with Digitroll and Capt. Paul. I strongly believe that the days of secret lures and color combinations are pretty much over. IMHO, it is the tweaking of presentations that catches over and above now.

[Gecha (Gerry)]

Great report Ron. I also run only 2 riggers. The other rods are running on planner boards or divers. Getting an autopilot was one of the best investment on the boat.

[dickbaker]

Thanks Ron! Three decades of fish out of my 18' Starcraft with two manual Big Jon riggers always
seemed to satisfy my fish catching need. But now that I fish champlain it seems I
lack gear because it seems every other boat has four long boomed electric
riggers, hi-tech electronics and hundreds of spoons? I like the quiet pace of trolling
two rods per person. I also like to set back, listening to the cables hum and the
waves lap the side of the boat while I enjoy a chocolate covered donut with coffee.
Lunch should be a casual affair of gourmet sliced meat and cheese. Sure fish
seem to interrupt us mid sandwich but its not the time to be playing with rigger
depth or changing lures. I have maybe thirty spoons and I rarely use more than
a half dozen a day. I don't like dipseys, or slide divers. I've tried cheaters but
they seem an inconvenience if a few fish are happy to bite the lure off the rigger.
Just what appeals to me and I rarely get skunked and often release double digit
salmon. Two flat line in early spring (replaced with two leadcore late May) and two
riggers keep me relaxed and happy.

Dick

[pfu]

Great post. I have a 26' boat but limited deck space and two electronic riggers has worked fine. Now I if I could convince the wife to get auto pilot I would be set.

Simple works for me.

[BottomDollar]

I fish alone 99% of the time and I've gotten so used to the two rigger program that I stick to it even with another license on board. If it's slow we run the one slide diver rod I have. With sliders that's 5 lures...plenty if you find fish.

[MADSIERRA]

If you look at the charter boats on lake Ontario you will see that a good # of them only have 3 riggers on there boats. i had a 27 ft Baha with 4 riggers and cant think of 1 time in last 3 yrs I ran all 4 while on lake Ontario. I now have a 10 meter Trojan with a 13.5 foot beam that has enough room to put 5 or even 6 riggers on it if you pushed it.... and I ONLY mounted 3 riggers on it. It seems to be as of late most of the days the "bite" is on your lead cores, wires, slide divers and coppers. many days we run multipule coppers and double dypsy's and still only have 3 riggers in the water...and some days have to run mini dypsy's or short cores off the riggers to get them to work! If was ever fishing alone and could only run 3 rods the only reason "most days" id have a rigger rod in the water is because my probe would be down there anyways so would attach a rod to it. Do we still catch fish off riggers?...yes they have there days. Buy, away from the boat and the disterbence seems to be the way to go.

[tamiron]

Ron:

Great report! You have a wealth of knowledge and I am thrilled that you are so willing to share./Jim

[Flashpoint]

Yeah.....what he said!! Lol. As some of you know I decided this year to leave the big baha in Oswego & am now running a 20 ft center console with ...yes just two riggers. Sliding cheaters, lite bites cores & yes coppers all taking fish. Over 60% of my hits coming on divers as of late. Great read Ron...all good stuff!

[digitroll (ron)]

Matt and Eric great input and others thanks for adding to this thread. It's in the plan this season for me to try copper as well with the OR37 SST Pro Mag inline board by Offshore. Fishing vertically outside the boats disturbance is a win-win. There are several options and one can pick and choose there delivery system of choice. There is no right or wrong answer I want to point out. It's the fun of trying.

[charlietuna]

Charlie,

My thesis in the title is about the age old question: Is 4 riggers better than 2 and putting your lures in stealth mode out and away for larger fish from the boat's turbulence from the hull and the rigger cannonballs ie. "Cone of Disturbance" using other modes of delivery systems especially when your limited to 4 rods and two fishermen per vessel.

Most of us have boats 22 ft or less. We tried the 4 rigger experiment for 8 years. If your fishing for quantity for smaller fish then 4 riggers are fine. However, using other delivery systems like Lite bite, Mini-discs, Tadpoles, Inline boards are a much better stealthy approach for larger fish fishing outside the boats "Cone of disturbance". Diversification similar to investing in the stock market is essential. 4 riggers take up a lot of gunnel space and can be liability at times running with limited space on a smaller boat under 22 ft. When your fishing 1-2 people I like to keep my options open when limited to 4 rods. I don't even run sliders or cheaters anymore. I don't stack two riggers while just running a clean rod on each. Keeping it simple as Capt. Ernie of Fish Doctors charters has taught me over the years. In years past the goal was to stuff 3 people in a boat sometimes 4 and put all this gear in the water as much as 8 lines sometimes to feel like we were fishing. These days I enjoy one person as a guest and challenge ourselves to limiting our tackle to 4 rods. The "Value Add" of adding more gear by adding more bodies in the boat or adding sliders on each rod becomes a point of diminishing returns like the candy bar example we learned about in Economic studies.

Does this work for everyone? No. If your limited with 2 people on a boat it's also fun to experiment with other delivery systems. This commentary is a collection of collaborations with many people I have spoken with and collecting information over the years. Yes, I tried the 4 rigger experiment and happy to go back to two. Trying new stuff and adjusting is half the fun of fishing so it's not boating and truly fishing.

I know one individual out there that just runs two riggers on his 22' Pursuit. Even with 3-4 people on his boat and never more than 2 rods. He has been following this philosophy for 30 years plus. This very simple program works for him. It's all about tailoring what works for you. Another one who fishes alone a lot has a 23.5 ft Boston Whaler hard top boat with 2 riggers only. 4 riggers may look more sexy on a boat but running two with optional delivery systems running in tandem with crews of two people will put quality fish in the boat when your limited to 4 rods. That is my opinion and others I have spoken with. Back to running two riggers was an easy choice. We have so many delivery system options now then 8 years ago when I thought 4 riggers was the answer. It's all about diversification. 4 strategically placed lures vertically and horizontally helps in pursuit of larger salmon.

Hope this helps clarify.

I run both wire and braid in combination on my Lite bites.

Ron? I believe it is? Thank you so much for the detailed response. I did go back and read your post several more times and it did all come together. Wow! The information you have gathered as well as putting it all together to help others is simply amazing!
I wish you the best!

CT
(Justin)