Another Utility under the Lake?

[raz]

Vermont Gas says it's signed a deal to build a pipeline under Lake Champlain to deliver fuel to the paper plant in Ticonderoga, New York.
Do we really need another Utility under the lake?
What are the environmental hazards?
Story here:
http://www.vpr.net/news_detail/96272/de ... champlain/

[Ludo]

Is fuel cheaper than electricity ?

[raz]

Is fuel cheaper than electricity ?

Yes, in Vermont, Natural Gas/Gaz is cheaper than electricity.

[Surprise]

Jeez Raz,

Boats on the lake like us have a much bigger impact on Pollution than a Pipefull of clean Cheap Natural Gas V.S. Foreign Oil or Waste Tires like they wanted to burn some years ago.

Besides they will run the line all the way to Middlebury allowing residential and Commercial hookups. VT Gas surveyed our street in Waltham and said by 2015. My Brother-in law heats his house in Essex Jct for about $600-700 a year V.S. I just sent Jackman's $3K and hope it will be enough.

This copied from a NY Times article & Link

For most of the country, the result has been cheaper energy. The nation is awash in so much natural gas that electric utilities, which burn the fuel in many generating plants, have curbed rate increases and switched more capacity to gas from coal, a dirtier fossil fuel.

Companies and municipalities are deploying thousands of new gas-powered trucks and buses, curbing noxious diesel fumes and reducing the nation’s reliance on imported oil.

And companies like fertilizer and chemical makers, which use gas as a raw material, are suddenly finding that the United States is an attractive place to put new factories, compared with, say, Asia, where gas is four times the price. Dow Chemical, which uses natural gas as a material for producing plastics, has assembled a list of 91 new manufacturing projects, representing $70 billion in potential investment and up to three million jobs, that various companies have proposed or begun because of cheap gas.

“The country has stumbled into a windfall on the backs of these entrepreneurs,” said Edward Hirs, a finance professor at the University of Houston who contributed to a report that estimated that the nation’s economy benefited by more than $100 billion last year alone from the lower gas prices

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/21/busin ... d=all&_r=0

I say Great! JMO, Randy

[Reel Delight (Walt)]

Natural gas is cheaper than buring fuel oil and possibly cheaper than burning wood. I think a natural gas supply to the IP plant will help clean up some of the pollution coming out of those stacks. That may be one step forward to cleaning the enviroment in the area. Now if they take some steps to clean up the smell of the waste water treatment plant as well as the discharge into the lake.

[fishingmachine]

I'm with keeping a well established industry thriving in this area,let them have the natural gas and let everyone in the area benefit from it. More cheaper power would help everyone in the area,including Lake Champlain.We can't afford to lose any more jobs in this area.

[digitroll (ron)]

The house and the mancave is plumbed with natural gas. It's about the only cheap alternative out there for low cost clean heating. Love it!

[raz]

Good stuff guys, thanks.
I wonder how they would repair a leak deep under water?

[Surprise]

Above my Pay Grade....

I'm sure one crosses water here somewhere like all those feeding from wells in the Gulf to land or under the St Lawrence from Canada.

http://www.eia.gov/pub/oil_gas/natural_ ... s_map.html


This Ain't Their First Rodeo

[raz]

Human progression...we are taking over

[Black Ghost (Ken)]

Good stuff guys, thanks.
I wonder how they would repair a leak deep under water?

Gerry,

Their plan is to install the pipeline deep under the bottom as practical. That would make failure of the pipe unlikely but repair impractical. I'm sure they would install valves at each end of the crossing to allow a failure under the lake to be isolated. Repair would most likely consist of replacement of the line with another pipeline, with consideration for the cause of the failure.

Ken

[Black Ghost (Ken)]

And, The pipe would likely have corrosion protection measures and leak detection systems.

[raz]

And, The pipe would likely have...leak detection systems.

Bubbles

[fishhuntadventure]

Natural gas - costs about 40% less than #2 fuel for heating, and much less than propane- like nearly half.

Check out the chart on page 3 of this Vermont report. Lots of good info to digest here.

As far as natural gas- it is dangerous as LNG due to the manner in which a saturated "cloud" will burn, or a danger in low places (like manure pits) as it displaces oxygen. Not worried if it leaks in the lake I don't think...and it probably will not.

Incidentally, some will be surprised to note that you can heat with electricity or make hot water with electric for very little more than the cost of propane. (propane is a by-product of refining crude oil and does not reduce our need to import foreign energy products whereas natural gas or LNG can reduce imports. But demand for natural gas currently exceeds US production so the long-term vision-casters surmise that natural gas will increase in cost over the next few years.)

Of course, if we had 2 new nukes being built at the Vt Yankee site with 6 times the current capacity, maybe heating with electricity would be a viable option for us.....

BTW - the column to look at in above referenced report is the cost per million BTU. That is an apples-to-apples comparison of heating costs.

[Surprise]

Mark your supply info is dated .

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/21/busin ... d=all&_r=0

The supply so far exceeds need that the cost of NG has fallen 50% since 2009. The cost of drilling exceeds the return and these drillers are literally drilling to the bottom cause they are looking for recovery of price before they borrow their way to Bankruptcy "Article"