anyone running copper on lake Champlain?

[Dockside]

I have a roll of Atomic wire in my hands right now and in the words of the great Ron White "I dont think so Scooter.".

This copper line would eat a rod tip to pieces.

I am pretty sure you need a copper or roller rod?

[fishingmachine]

OH YEAH,,,THAT'S THE OTHER REASON I DON'T LIKE COPPER

[JabberJaws]

Copper rods have what looks to me like stainless steel eyes and for a wire dipsy rod its as simple as changing the rod tip on a dipsy rod to a twilly tip (a spring tip the line runs through). Ramel

[MADSIERRA]

Do you have a roll of copper or a roll of wire? because with the WIRE you DO NEED a twilly tip or roller rod as jabberjaws and I said. With copper you do not need either. I have shimano talora rods with 45 lb atomic copper on them. they have aluminum guides on them and the copper does NOT cut into the guides. I'm sure there may be sum people that run a roller type rod with copper...but it is by choice not because they have to. I have the same rods for my wire dypsy's & i just heated the end eye to remove it and replaced with the twilly tip.

[Digitroll Fishing]

Do you have a roll of copper or a roll of wire? because with the WIRE you DO NEED a twilly tip or roller rod as jabberjaws and I said. With copper you do not need either. I have shimano talora rods with 45 lb atomic copper on them. they have aluminum guides on them and the copper does NOT cut into the guides. I'm sure there may be sum people that run a roller type rod with copper...but it is by choice not because they have to. I have the same rods for my wire dypsy's & i just heated the end eye to remove it and replaced with the twilly tip.

What I have heard from the Fish Doctor "Capt. Ernie" is the soft property of copper is a non-issue with guides. Twilly's tips do a nice job with wire. Never had any issues with my twilly's. I have about 6 wire rods with twilly's.

[Reelax]

I have used 45# copper on Ontario, Champlain, Winnipesaukee and other NH lakes. Leadcore is used from the beginning of the season until when 7 colors are needed to get to the fish and then the copper comes out. Copper sinks at about 2X leadcore so now it takes less line out to get to the fish and less cranking. Copper is just another bait delivery system like dipsy, litebite and snap on lead weight, etc.
30# copper has about the same sinking rate as 18# leadcore.


Stainless steel and copper are of a lower density when compared to lead. The advantage of using copper or stainless steel is there is no sheathing as in lead core providing tensile strength to the lead core line, sufficient tensile strength is inherent in the material. For about the same overall diameter as lead core line, copper or stainless has more mass, subsequently weighs more than the core of lead core line. The following table shows the diameters of the core for lead core line and a comparable SS wire and copper with the associated areas. 18 lb lead core line has a core diameter of 0.020 and an over all diameter with sheathing of 0.032.

Excellent info here Gus.. Thanks for posting...

[fishhuntadventure]

As I have said, I do not own any copper rods. But since fishing interests me and I am an OCD information absorber as I was reading the above several things come to mind.

First, while a roller tip for copper may be an improvement, it does not solve the problem that exists for any cable or wire delivery system- especially low-diameter soft copper alloy like is used for fishing: metal fatigue. The larger effective radius of a Twili Tip may be bizzare and/or unsightly but it will reduce breaking of the copper line significantly. A standard stainless or other hard guide may not wear itself, but the sharp bend a standard guide produces constantly fatigues the copper and (depending on the alloy or so it has been related) may actually work-harden, lowering its pound-test margin. Rollers do OK with steel, titanium, and nickel (non-magnetic stainless) cables (wire) but not so much for copper.

Second, isn't copper line usually deployed in segments (1/2-core, 1/4-core) so that the backer takes the abuse and not the copper? I heard a lot about that when over in NY and I have read similar on LOU. Just wondering.

Finally, -and this is my take but again I have not used it- I would think that a smooth continuously-variable decreasing radius tip would be better for copper as such a soft metal as this would help work out kinks caused by deployment coiling that all cables/line/rope gets? I am sure that a Twili Tip provides a similar benefit in a much smaller package.

Just some thoughts as I read the posts.

[fishingmachine]

I still think its like shooting chickadees with a 10 guage

[JabberJaws]

I asked the sales rep about a twilli tip on a copper rod and was told that copper did not do well with a twilli tip because the woven wire tended to get caught. Some people on Ontario have a different rod for each length of copper BIG $$$. I have set up rods for a couple of guys that had 50 yards of copper 50' of mono 50 yards of copper 50' of mono ........ They would clip their planer to the mono to keep from getting a wear point on the copper. I have not heard of problems with weak spots in copper from the rod tip.

Most of the guys I sell copper to are using it because it sinks a little faster than leadcore and are dragging for lakers in smaller lakes where downriggers are hard to run without losing lots of gear.

I still think its like shooting chickadees with a 10 guage

I agree there are better and more fun ways to catch Lake Champlain salmon but if you have a setup for Ontario and want to get it wet before heading West it will catch fish. Ramel

[Dukdog]

Second, isn't copper line usually deployed in segments (1/2-core, 1/4-core) so that the backer takes the abuse and not the copper? I heard a lot about that when over in NY and I have read similar on LOU. Just wondering.

That's the way I was taught over on Lake O. I've got couple copper setups. I run out all the copper then attach the power pro backing to my planer board release. This keeps the wear off the copper and prevents the stress at the rod tip or the release.

I tried using my Talora roller rods but the inline swivels that came with my copper setup kept hanging up in the roller tip. It'd go through but not without jerking around with it.. I went to the Okuma copper/leadcore 9' rods for this year. No hangup problems there because the tip is very large and wide.