Salmon fishery

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Captain Paul
Posts: 527
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 2:14 pm
Species: lake trout,salmon,panfish

Re: Salmon fishery

Post by Captain Paul »

My thoughts what has changed in the last 5 years because we had decent Salmon fishing before that . Lake Trout have not changed much if anything the number are down on big lake trout from 5 years ago but there are plenty for now. Spiny water Fleas and Hook tail water Fleas started to show up in big numbers at the same time the Salmon Fishery went to Hell could it be that those small salmon are eating fleas when they are stocked and they get stuck in there gills and kill them ? Or could it be that Double Crested Cormorant control stopped in that same time frame and now the Cormorants off 4 Brothers island almost always go south to feed now and they are eating them all when they are first stocked would be pretty easy for them to spot those schools of small Salmon from the air in the spring when they are in the top 15 feet of water ? Or Could it be something going on with the Hatchery and they are not surviving the stocking ? To me these are the most obvious things that could have changed . I don't believe Lamprey are the major problem now there are still way to many with out a doubt but no where near the number there was 5 or 10 years ago.
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C-Hawk
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Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2012 11:41 am
Species: salmon,lake trout

Re: Salmon fishery

Post by C-Hawk »

It seems curious to me that one of the bright spots, though dim, seems to be the Inland sea. Mainly cookie cutters, but after the Keeler's thing is over, fish can still be found. St. Albans Bay, Sandbar, Georgia Shore and a few from the Cowbanks. Not at all like the old days, but maybe getting better? The big correlation I can make is, there are virtually no Lakers in the Sea. Easier for salmon to feed? Less competition for bait supply?
digitroll (ron)
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Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2011 12:58 pm

Re: Salmon fishery

Post by digitroll (ron) »

Jeff / Paul,

Another interesting piece is the Inland Sea has been unaffected by the Fleas the last 5 years and no lake trout up there. Cause and effect? The Lakers have exploded on the main lake in the last 3 years with many under 4 lbs with natural reproduction. Lamprey control has been amazing in the last few years. We are seeing very few come up and stick to the transom this past December especially with 3 trips to Willsboro. Very few wounds on the bigger fish at the Hatchery when I went up to film a week before Thanksgiving. The bait has been very deep this Fall 100-120 feet. Seems like a lot of bait down there. Guys have been catching the bigger ones very deep with as much as 120 feet of cable out in the last month. However, small salmon we are typically see less than 15" remain scarce on the main lake. Browns have all but disappeared in the last two seasons. We landed 2 this year. Thats it! Steelies were more numerous this year than the last 2 years.

It's an enigma! It could be as simple as the fleas arrival 5 years ago?
dry net
Posts: 328
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2016 5:34 pm
Species: cold water

Re: Salmon fishery

Post by dry net »

There were fleas in the sea last summer, not as bad as down south but still there. Just my observation.
digitroll (ron)
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Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2011 12:58 pm

Re: Salmon fishery

Post by digitroll (ron) »

The first summer the fleas arrived in the Sea?
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riddlervt
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Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:00 am
Species: Fins and Scales
Location: Milton

Re: Salmon fishery

Post by riddlervt »

Last summer was the first time I had fleas in the IS. I have not caught a brown in 2 years either. No steelhead as well.
Riddler
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C-Hawk
Posts: 1760
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2012 11:41 am
Species: salmon,lake trout

Re: Salmon fishery

Post by C-Hawk »

Kind of funny. 2 or 3 years ago I lamented on the fact that it was awfully tough to catch salmon North of Burlington. I was told by many that I didn't look around enough. Try different places. Just a run of bad luck. Put more time in . Mix it up. Go South, ( wich for a while was an answer). Change your routine. Change your lure. Blah blah blah. Everyone chalked it up to my lack of trying, or minimal experience. I put 250 to 275 hours a year on the water. Mostly in the Islands.
I've been fishing LC for 35: years. I know what is going on. Salmon fishing sucks and I've been chicken little for too long. Some one else needs to speak up. I've written F and G. They don't care. A thousand fish returning to the hatchery, is not a lake wide census. If we want to be laker fishermen, OK. But, I plan on making trips to Sebago. Maybe other places that value their salmon fishery more than New York and Vermont do.
60Fishman
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Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2016 8:24 pm
Species: lake trout, salmon, bass

Re: Salmon fishery

Post by 60Fishman »

I am not an expert but a lot of people have been saying the Lakers are spawning and the fry survive. I would like to know if Vt. Fish and Wildlife or NYSDEC has confirmed this. No doubt there may be a few but if this is the case somehow the Lake Trout fry have found a way to survive the thyamine deficiency problem created by the adults consuming alewives. I know some say that the fish are not fin-clipped but in NYS many of the hatcheries no longer fin clip trout (saves money). Either way, personally I do not think Lake trout are the problem. There just are to many examples of lakes in Maine and elsewhere where LT and salmon populations co-exist. With the amount of forage in Champlain I just don't see predation by LT being the main problem. Water quality is a big problem, IMO. They need clean water and smelt to thrive. And as mentioned before there is just very little spawning habitat. That is why they still do well in the Maine Lakes, clean water, smelt and good streams to spawn in.

I will admit I am a little biased because for the most part I target LT on the six or seven weekends a year I get a chance to fish LC. Quite honestly I got tired of catching mostly 22" or so fish in lake George with the very rare fish over say 27". On LC any given weekend you have a real good chance for a 10 pounder or better, although they do seem to top out around 15 pounds, which to me is another mystery. I just wonder if they finally succumb to the Lampreys after a certain life span. Only thing I can think of because there should be more 20 pound plus fish.
Boatless in BTV
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Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2011 1:54 am
Species: Anything that bites
Location: Burlington, VT

Re: Salmon fishery

Post by Boatless in BTV »

60Fishman wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 7:23 pm I am not an expert but a lot of people have been saying the Lakers are spawning and the fry survive. I would like to know if Vt. Fish and Wildlife or NYSDEC has confirmed this. No doubt there may be a few but if this is the case somehow the Lake Trout fry have found a way to survive the thyamine deficiency problem created by the adults consuming alewives.
Yes, wild born lake trout have definitely been confirmed by researchers. They've been found in significant numbers since 2015. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 3017301909

According to the Lake Champlain Fisheries technical committee, 57.4 of juvenile lakers found in sample trawling of the Main Lake in 2019 were wild born. See Page 26 here: https://www.fws.gov/lcfwro/pdf/partners ... 0Draft.pdf
60Fishman
Posts: 52
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2016 8:24 pm
Species: lake trout, salmon, bass

Re: Salmon fishery

Post by 60Fishman »

Thank you for those links. Well that proves it for me since NYS participated and they know which fish they clip or don't clip. The wild population is only 4% of the total but looks to be growing. Apparently they are adapting to the thiamine issue. I used to fly fish the upper Boquet regularly (have not in years) and used to catch the stocked salmon smolts while trout fishing. Now that the dam is out you have to figure that that should improve the situation greatly. The portions of that stream below E-town are great habitat, clean water, free-stone stream. And still enough water for spawning or so it would seem.
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