Salmon Future

[C-Hawk]

I am hoping to get a little feedback here about what everyone thinks about the quality of our salmon fishing. I have serious concerns, and voiced my opinion to then head biologist for the Vermont side of our Lake, Chet McKenzie, about 3 years ago. At that time, I remember we had a decent early summer bite, then things just shut down. Through the summer, we caught no shakers, and the fall bite was ok, and from Converse and below, good, ifyou like cookie cutters. He replied that what we are seeing was just a " bump in the road".
The following season I was happy to see a few fish in Mallets, although nothing big. This was ideal for me as I didn't even have to get the boat up on plane to fish. However, this shut down quickly, and I attributed it the fact that Mallets warms quickly. Also the Inland Sea turned on, and is still a bright spot in our fishery, if you like 18" fish. That year we may have caught 8 or 10 Broad Lake salmon, no browns no steelhead. Also not a fish from Cumberland Head, or Ausable, or any what I'm told to try " new water" in between. Now I fish quite a bit and rack up 200- 250 hours a year on my boat. I was getting very concerned for the Lake north of Burlington. Willsboro did produce some cookie cutters that year.
Now last year. Sucked, and I mean sucked the big one. Inland Sea once again a bright spot, but NO, I must repeat, NO Broad Lake salmon, steelhead or browns. So, I fished Converse, caught a few. Caught a couple in Shelburne Bay. Fished Willsboro twice, Port Douglas area twice. 3 trips over to Ausable, 2 times to Cumberland. I am not going to mention all the stops in-between. Now, most of my fishing is around the islands, the fill, Colchester reef, even no man's land way out in the middle, and the ferry crossing area. Absolutely nothing. 200 hours plus. They tell me try new water. I know the Southern end of the Lake, and I fish it spring and fall, even winter. Just barely better last year. And, this Frostbite season from what I hear has even been a bust. The days of Fishville seem to be over.
Now, are we all going to congregate on Bulwagga Bay, and Keeler's every spring and put the hurt on the fish that are left? Probably. It just amazes me that we have lost good fishing in 75 % of our Lake with hardly a wimper out any of us . I know Matt is optimistic, but , I like fishing the whole Lake, not just from Westport to the bridge, and believe me, I have covered a lot of it and it just plain sucks.
I have many of the same old reasons or excuses for the decline, but a new is, and to quote a good , well known NY fisherman, "Too many damn Lakers", also the wind has been incredible the past two seasons, with 5 , 40 mph plus events that I was aware of. I can only think of a couple all my years before this. I'm talking about summertime 24-36 hour blows. This creates a wall of warm just North of Burlington, but please, we need to get our experts on this.

[dry net]

What do you propose?

[C-Hawk]

What do you propose?

Not sure, but with natural reproduction of Lakers occuring, we should advocate a reduction of lake trout stocking numbers. I believe they far outnumber other species In stocking numbers. With more control of lamprey, these are dominant fish , and way more active than we have been accustomed to. I was rountinley catching them at 60 feet, even in August, way out of their normal temp range.

[dry net]

So do you think that one problem is a lack of bait and there by decreasing the amount of lakers will increase the salmon population?

[fishy1]

great report jeff lets hear it from all the trollers not just the frostbite fleet your thoughts . i know some of you did well with the salmon with a different fishing methods lets hear your thoughts . dont be shy. also let the dec chime in on this and the vt fish and wild life their thoughts please.

[C-Hawk]

So do you think that one problem is a lack of bait and there by decreasing the amount of lakers will increase the salmon population?

Yes, it seems to me that once bait is found, their is a short window where you might get some fish, then it is overwhelmed with mid size Lakers. Also the wall of warm water developed after a severe south blow, keeps the bait concentrated from Burlington and below. The deep water of the mid lake absorbs these temperature changes much quicker. I see rountinley, 20 degree temp changes at depth, overnight. No way to accommodate this kind of thing, but when all the bait and all the Lakers get crowded into a smaller section of lake, it doesn't bode well for salmon. Combine that with sailboats,(threw that in for Joey),.....

[Wallyandre (Andre)]

I feel you're pain!

[fishy1]

i have some good success for salmon close to shore in the spring in 2 to 6 feet of water in weeds yeah hard to believe weeds found out a few years ago when filleting them there forage in their stomachs was baby sunfish. the alewife forage is also spread out more all the way past ticonderoga. just like the smelt in early years lakers chasing them farthur south all the time. in 2010 i was able to catch smelt almost every day fishing perch in 6 fow in weeds and also a occasional laker which i was targeting on my little jiggle rods through the ice. i heard of lakers caught all the way down to dresden now . i was catching these smelt 3 miles south of the bridge. i agree with jeff lots of lakers in champlain and their gobbling up the forage a fast pace. this fall fishing from shore for lakers there was plenty of small ones to big ones then i was in hospital for 5 weeks and couldnt fish but my friend who lives there is still catching them as of january 7th 2020. this is just one little spot with not much room to move and i consistently catch lakers every year there . i have said it for years the laker population did away with the big smelt polpulation we had in champlain. good to have them but we need more forage and the cormorants dont help either. why would the salmon be eating baby sunnies if there was a good populatiion of smelt or alewifes? i learned years ago i needed to change for walleyes and other species to be consistently successfull. some of the rivers this fall on the ny side held a good population of spawning salmon but thats not much considering the size of the lake. the last reports i been seeing here and from freinds is they cant get away from the lakers . i guess if you look at it overall we need the lakers but we also need the salmon just to many lakers for the forage in champlain just my thoughts chawks post.

[dry net]

I've read articles for years stating that salmon that eat alewives die because of a substance in the alewife. Can't remember the name of the substance. Then the other day I read an article that claims the same thing about smelt. Can anyone substantiate this? The smelt thing I find hard to believe.

[Wallyandre (Andre)]

Alewife tissues contain a chemical that breaks down thiamine, an important vitamin for the development of young fish and eggs. The chemical can also break down thiamine in fish that eat alewives, like lake trout. When lake trout eat too many alewives, their eggs hatch, but the larvae die.

[Cas]

Thiamine deficiency. However I believe the stocking program is addressing this by adding it to the water at the hatchery. Apparently it's had some level of success via testing.

There's been a lot of changes in the lake in the past decade -
- Natural reproduction of lake trout
- Increased cormorant population
- Less smelt
- More alewives
- Water fleas
- Increase in sewage overflows in to the lake
- Rise in lamprey wounding rates
- Climate change

I'm sure there's others I've missed

Hard to determine what the right course of action is, but I think one thing we can agree on is the salmon fishery has changed dramatically. Are they still there and moved, or not as many? I don't know, but it has definitely changed.

[Wallyandre (Andre)]

Thiamine deficiency. However I believe the stocking program is addressing this by adding it to the water at the hatchery. Apparently it's had some level of success via testing. I didn't knowthat! Good thing

There's been a lot of changes in the lake in the past decade -
- Natural reproduction of lake trout. I don't think there is that many more lakers; we are seeing more because guys get tired of not catching so they start jigging for lakers.
- Increased cormorant population I think it's one of the problem
- Less smelt That is a problem for sure related to more alewives
- More alewives To feed lakers and salmon and all the others?
- Water fleas There is water fleas in lake Ontario for years and it seems it's no effect on the salmons but more on the food sources for the predatos
- Increase in sewage overflows in to the lake That is very bad!
- Rise in lamprey wounding rates That too
- Climate change Maybe; more and stronger wind that disturb the thermocline

I'm sure there's others I've missed Probably

Hard to determine what the right course of action is, but I think one thing we can agree on is the salmon fishery has changed dramatically. Are they still there and moved, or not as many? I don't know, but it has definitely changed.

[C-Hawk]

Salmon catching is the new walleye thing.

[digitroll (ron)]

The Spring started out slow in the usual areas including Bulwagga for us in April...

Keelers turned on for the first time in a few years but we only fished it once as they were 14-15" fish and that gets old fast or after 20 fish and 2 hours. We bailed and tried other areas looking or bigger fish with no luck in the Sea.

Hot spot #1 for a few of us was producing 17-18" fish which was worth fishing with a few 20" fish in the mix up till the LCI.

Malletts and Outerbay was very slow for us the 3-4 times we tried.

Missed July due to family vacations.

Started again in early August off Providence landing a 6 lb Steelhead I released. Would've been in first place in the Basin Derby now but didn't have the heart to kill it. Had a nice outing with Andre aboard August 23rd with a nice steely and salmon. August/September was very slow for salmon almost dead fishing the main lake and slow out of Converse.

Late October to late November we landed 6 salmon measuring 20-24" with the biggest 6 lbs a few days after the Shoot-Out. November was a very windy and cold month so I only got out 3 or 4 times. December 3rd was just lake trout. Been off water since December 3rd not counting my new engine break-in on the 15th.

It's the fewest times going out for me since I started Frostbiting 13 years ago in the late Fall. Seeing a lot of native Lake Trout 18-22" with all their fins. If we counted salmon 18" and above I would say we were around 50 salmon for the year. Don't forget there is a lot of 14-17"..LOL in the mix. It would be great to see an 18" minimum length. Shakers counted about 12-15 this past season

Looking forward to Ontario this year for 2020.

These two 6 lb fish for 2019 were released in these photos. With so few large fish swimming in the lake I hate to kill even one.

[Wallyandre (Andre)]

Thanks Ron for the realistic report; about the same situation here but with less salmon because of the lack of desire to troll only to wash spoons.