Sea Lamprey uptick and low small 10-12" salmon numbers.

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digitroll (ron)
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Sea Lamprey uptick and low small 10-12" salmon numbers.

Post by digitroll (ron) »

We have been seeing an increase of lamprey's on all trout and salmon species these past 3 months. In addition... Very few small stockie's seen. Good news there has been more Browns and especially Steelhead showing up since late last Fall. We have been fishing 5 different areas of the lake for our sample and doesn't seem to be area dependent.
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Reelax
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Re: Sea Lamprey uptick and low small 10-12" salmon numbers.

Post by Reelax »

I can vouch for the lamprey data... seems every good fish is sporting a sucker lately... I do see some cookie cutters on the inland sea, but few in the main lake.... till now I figured it was cause we target adult fish.... but who knows..... we can’t afford a lost generation again .. like we saw for 2 years not long ago... that’s the reason our salmon top out at 24-25 right now....I fish for 26”+ fish and haven’t landed one in 2019 yet which is a huge annomoly for us as we have gotten well over 300 salmon since April, and by now we usually have many fish over 26” in the net..... not 2019..... maybe 2020....

They are there, they are just rare right now.
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fishy1
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Re: Sea Lamprey uptick and low small 10-12" salmon numbers.

Post by fishy1 »

i been seeing lots of lampreys on the lakers lately on facebook posts. the last time i fished the bouquet river it was loaded with 8 to 10 inch stockers i caught them as fast as i could cast out there also was cormorants in there feasting on them. ugh. havent been in a boat much since june though wonder if other trollers have landed any . i know ny lost lots of salmon last winter to that big power outage so its not going to be a great stocking year.
digitroll (ron)
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Re: Sea Lamprey uptick and low small 10-12" salmon numbers.

Post by digitroll (ron) »

Well I was being conservative but the majority of our fish have had lamprey's on them in the last few months. The Sea did have a nice crop of 15-17" fish in April with a very few 18" landed in Keelers Bay which is good for the coming years. We only fished them a few times for a short period of time to not injure them by not catching 30-40 of these 15-17" fish as we moved away from them. Keeler's had been almost void of fish the last two years before this Spring. Normally Rainbows and Browns are a barometer for lamprey attacks as they seem to be the first to parish. With populations on the upswing this is a good sign. A complex eco system that has even the experts puzzled with the rise and fall of our stocked fish and lamprey population surge. With the huge populations of Lakers in the lake it's surprising how many have lampreys attached even small ones of 18" we catch by mistake fishing salmon. Those 17" salmon in Keelers we caught in April hadn't yet been attacked by the emerging adult lampreys.
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fishy1
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Re: Sea Lamprey uptick and low small 10-12" salmon numbers.

Post by fishy1 »

i agree with you ron on the lampreys seems like every troller and jigger is finding lampreys on lakers and big ones to something isnt right with the chemical treatments i would think. could it ibe they have other places to dispose of their larvae. i landed 46 salmon this spring on shore no lampreys and 42 of the salmon were 18 to 21 inches nothing over that though. i did lose a few bigger ones out trolling a few times caught majority 16 to 17 inches. go figure.
digitroll (ron)
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Re: Sea Lamprey uptick and low small 10-12" salmon numbers.

Post by digitroll (ron) »

Spring time it's rare to see fresh wounds and lamprey hanging off the fish. June-December is when the adult lamprey are seen on the fish to complete there one year cycle in the lake.
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Reelax
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Re: Sea Lamprey uptick and low small 10-12" salmon numbers.

Post by Reelax »

I think lamprey are like Coyotes and wild pigs. The more you take out the population the more the species procreates to compensate.

We are fighting an uphill battle...

We need a natural lamprey predator who’s primary food is lamprey. But if that is possible or even something that would not ruin the food chain I have no idea...

To me, it is VERY obvious the current methods are not going to reduce over all lamprey numbers..They will basically control them to a point, IMHO.. but they will always bounce back HARD

If we don’t put other drastic measures in place we will never win this battle.

Poison is not the answer. But it is all we got right now... (among other small projects like traps)

We need to look at it from a food chain perspective and maybe put a game fish to work for us?
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Re: Sea Lamprey uptick and low small 10-12" salmon numbers.

Post by TUnamas »

Reelax wrote:I think lamprey are like Coyotes and wild pigs. The more you take out the population the more the species procreates to compensate.

We are fighting an uphill battle...

We need a natural lamprey predator who’s primary food is lamprey. But if that is possible or even something that would not ruin the food chain I have no idea...

To me, it is VERY obvious the current methods are not going to reduce over all lamprey numbers..They will basically control them to a point, IMHO.. but they will always bounce back HARD

If we don’t put other drastic measures in place we will never win this battle.

Poison is not the answer. But it is all we got right now... (among other small projects like traps)

We need to look at it from a food chain perspective and maybe put a game fish to work for us?
I think we need to develop a commercial lamprey fishery! They must make decent fertilizer?!!
troutcrazy
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Re: Sea Lamprey uptick and low small 10-12" salmon numbers.

Post by troutcrazy »

They eat 'em in Europe.
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fishy1
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Re: Sea Lamprey uptick and low small 10-12" salmon numbers.

Post by fishy1 »

troutcrazy wrote:They eat 'em in Europe.
some eat them hear also in plattsburgh area i heard
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Captain Paul
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Re: Sea Lamprey uptick and low small 10-12" salmon numbers.

Post by Captain Paul »

This is surprising to me . We have seen lower numbers of Lamprey this year and some very clean healthy fish. I think a stronger dose of TFM would help for sure but I think we are gaining ground on Lamprey. The Salmon Fishery on the other hand is a disaster I have seen zero small Salmon this year on the Main Lake.
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tamiron
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Re: Sea Lamprey uptick and low small 10-12" salmon numbers.

Post by tamiron »

Captain Paul:

I certainly am not questioning your observations or others and I don't even fish very much any more (certainly not Champlain). But whenever I contact the VT Fish & Game, they don't believe that the cormorants are as devastating to the stocking program as most anglers do!

So my obvious question is directed to the Fish & Game Dept, the fish Biologists, and anybody else in the academic or political arena ... What is happening to the fishery? Do any of them know scientifically, what the problem might be? Over fishing? Disease? Lampreys? Shorter seasons? Poor water conditions? Natural selection altering method of survival including location?

IMO, we will never know what the solution is, until the problem is scientifically and accurately defined. Would love to hear from Fish & Game.
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Captain Paul
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Re: Sea Lamprey uptick and low small 10-12" salmon numbers.

Post by Captain Paul »

Tamiron:
Those are questions we would all love to have answer too. Here are my thoughts the massive flocks of Cormorants on Four Brothers Island use to spend a lot of there time feeding in the Burlington / Shelburne bay area for the past few years those flock seem to be going south to feed Thompsons point to the Champlain bridge starting when they arrive here in the spring it never use to be that way. In the Spring for some reason most of the Salmon stocks seem to be in that southern end of the Lake where they stay near the surface in big schools easy targets for Cormorants. Another thought I have that could be the problem is Water Fleas that seem to have showed up at the same time the fishery went to hell. I have heard that Fleas can get in the gills of smaller fish and kill them considering that small Salmon feed heavily on bugs and the amount Fleas we are seeing maybe that's the problem. Water Quality I do not believe to be an issue for them yes have Blue Green algae issues but I believe over all the Main Lake is still quite healthy. Another observation we use to catch 2 to 8 small stocker Salmon a day from mid July thru Mid October when we tried for Salmon mind you most of the time we fish Lake Trout but normally try for Salmon a couple times a week. Starting about 3 years ago we stopped catching those small stocked Salmon as did most other boats Me and Thorne expressed our conserns back then and it has not been good since. The only thing I have heard out of F&W is that Lamprey numbers are still to high for a good fishery which I can believe but Lamprey numbers in my opinion are lower than I have ever seem them.
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tamiron
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Re: Sea Lamprey uptick and low small 10-12" salmon numbers.

Post by tamiron »

Capt. Paul:

Your first hand observations require responses! F&W want anglers to cooperate with them ... so why don't they respond to us on this forum ... there are quite a few of them as members???
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