CORMORANTS!!

Share info on fishing Champlain.
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C-Hawk
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Re: CORMORANTS!!

Postby C-Hawk » Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:45 pm

Just to throw a thought out there, and I fully expect to be vilified, or at least to be corrected, what about the state of New York's intrest in cormorant control, stocking schedules, and in general Lake Champlain issues? Every time there is something going on with the Lake, it seems that Vt. Fish and Wildlife gets the blame. I know that there is joint management of Lake Champlain fisheries, but Vt. is always brought to task. I know on this forum that there are probably more Vt members, and I am not taking anyone to task here ( Jimbow), but it seems to me we never hear about what NY DEC does for our Lake. I believe stocking numbers are lower than Vt, and fisherman numbers may be lower, but I would like to be informed. Is Lake Champlain underfunded because Lake Ontario gets all the attention? The removal of the dam in Willsboro and work to establish a natural population of salmon is great work and very important to the future, but in the mean while let's hear about current stocking number and practices.

I'm going to go out on a fairly sturdy limb here and suggest that the number of lawyers in NY would be more than the entire population of Vt, and don't at least some of them fish? Maybe a couple could assist in writing to the court and query about cormorant control. Doesnt NY have a little more money to help with Lake issues? I guess with larger goverment comes slower response times. It only took 3 years to finally nail down the 3 line rule. When I contact Vt Fish and Wildlife, they get right back to me. Would that happen in NY?I am well invested in NY, and even a landowner, but I think it may be time for Fisheries Management to put a little more of a public face on what they do for us

I love what NY does in terms of acess, as they have great boat ramps, but maybe they could lead the way on cormorant control, aren't the Brothers Islands in NY?
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jimbow
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Re: CORMORANTS!!

Postby jimbow » Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:44 pm

C-Hawk please do not think I was trying to vilify you in anyway. I more than apologize if you thought I was trying to do so...But rather I was just trying to pointing out that ALL the agencies (N.Y., Vt. & The Feds) responsible for the fisheries on Champlain are making excuses rather than taking action to save it, and it is frustrating to see their lack of action. That is why I pointed out that it was the DATA provided by these agencies is what I questioned and definitely NOT an attack on your direct knowledge, personal integrity or experience in the matter. I stand corrected for a regretful poor choice of words that I used to describe my feelings. You are one of the few members that are out there no matter what and and actually post and do so HONESTLY, good or bad.. So again, please do not think it was a personal intrusion into your honesty. All I wanted to point out that there are other members out there that have witnessed and POSTED contradictory accounts to what ever agency data you may have quoted or used.

And I agree with you 100% C-Hawk that N.Y. should step up to the plate a lot more. As they say, "silence is deafening", and it seems that N.Y. is mute when it comes to the Lake too. This is, UN-fortunately, the era of "Fake news" provided by both news and government agencies. I say seeing is believing and judge for yourself, but I hope we can see that these birds are doing damage to the fisheries. If I am proven wrong I will eat CROW, or in this instance, Cormorant!
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C-Hawk
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Re: CORMORANTS!!

Postby C-Hawk » Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:57 pm

I never meant my post as a rebuttal of your post but it just got me thinking about why we never hear from DEC. I get their email newsletter's daily and while they are numerous and extensive there is almost never a clip about Champlain. Sometimes I feel like the State border is the NY shoreline. I never thought you were responding to me in a personal way.
Last edited by C-Hawk on Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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C-Hawk
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Re: CORMORANTS!!

Postby C-Hawk » Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:14 pm

I guess I must continue, in 30 years of fishing the Lake, I have only seen NY wardens twice and got checked once. Granted I spend more time in Vt waters, but between creel surveys, license checks and safety compliance inspections, Vt is far ahead in numbers per hours fished. Also, what about all the research involving Ellen Mardson and lake trout at UVM; I hope funding is at least mostly federal, but what studies does NY do? They have a nice buoy off Valcour, but the plug is being pulled on that after 2 seasons. NY anglers should lobby for more activity from DEC, and get more involved in the process. Other than Jimbow, not too many NY residents on here speak up about conservation issues.
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Captain Paul
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Re: CORMORANTS!!

Postby Captain Paul » Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:40 am

I agree with you C-Hawk its seems like we here very little about what New York does for Champlain but I have a feeling that even though we don't here much they may be responsible for a lot of what gets done. Remember when VT. dropped the ball on Lamprey control NY continued there program well VT did nothing. I also heard a while back that NY was trying to acquire Four Brothers Islands from Nature Conservancy so they could control the Cormorants but have not heard anything recently.
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keithm87
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Re: CORMORANTS!!

Postby keithm87 » Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:51 pm

it would be a shame if the brothers were infested with thousands of rats that ate cormorant eggs...
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fishy1
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Re: CORMORANTS!!

Postby fishy1 » Fri Oct 20, 2017 6:05 am

i agree with paul ny took the ball on lampreys and vt was lagging and is still behind my opionion. im not one for getting into the politics of the lake but there are just to many cormorants period. i was fishing yesterday at the camp when a flock of cormorants were flying by me that had to be 1/2 mile long . every year i watch the migration here and its multiplying every year. ugh. at the winter workshop vt said they would get back to us on some questions such as the 3 mines in n.y. but only 2 on champlain because vt has 2 lines . have got no feedback yet on the forum from them. would like n.y. and vt. to be more active on champlain. i just cant imagine that many cormorant here on this lake and how many fish they eat. mind boggling to say the least.
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Surprise
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Re: CORMORANTS!!

Postby Surprise » Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:58 am

Hey all, Not to stir the pot too much but the "3 Lines on Champlain when in NY" can be told to the Judge.

Right in the April 2017 syllabus

Page 29 As should be for a reciprocal agreement area


No more than 2 lines per person. Each fishing line may have no more than 2 baited hooks or 2 artificial lures, with
or without added natural bait.

See you all in a couple weeks. Randy
Fish On!
bagman
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Re: CORMORANTS!!

Postby bagman » Fri Oct 20, 2017 9:54 am

The question that was asked at the winter workshop was will Vermont be considering the 3 rod change since Champlain is the only lake that NY has kept the 2 rod rule and could we possibly make that change.
The other question that was asked is why is Vermont stocking 20,000+ steelhead in the Winooski and then closing the waters in the spring. I understand the protection of the walleye fishery but why bother stocking them.
Both questions were answered with "we monitor this forum and we'll be getting back to you on this"
So far crickets
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keithm87
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Re: CORMORANTS!!

Postby keithm87 » Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:57 pm

https://www.fws.gov/migratorybirds/pdf/ ... rantEA.pdf

In case you all missed it, fws is again issuing depredation permits for cormorants
https://www.fws.gov/migratorybirds/pdf/ ... rantEA.pdf
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keithm87
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Re: CORMORANTS!!

Postby keithm87 » Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:03 pm

And for all of your pleasure a link to the permit application.
https://www.fws.gov/forms/3-200-13.pdf
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ThreeBuoys
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Re: CORMORANTS!!

Postby ThreeBuoys » Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:28 am

This is good news...I guess....
$100 for an Application to maybe be approved is laughable....
Also looks like many restrictions, including a limit on how many you will be allowed to shoot, etc.
Also if your application is approved....a second form is required...
I work for the FEDS, so I have to shake my head....










i
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keithm87
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Re: CORMORANTS!!

Postby keithm87 » Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:26 pm

It’s not ideal, but it allows you to bring a gun to 4 brothers and blast. My guess is that total bag limit in the state will be really small if any get issued here. But it’s progress over a complete shutdown.
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keithm87
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Re: CORMORANTS!!

Postby keithm87 » Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:28 pm

Our friends in NY are best situated as 4 brothers is in NY and they have the big lake with issues as well. If we were to create a donation pool to and use it for a few applications it would give us a shot.
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C-Hawk
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Re: CORMORANTS!!

Postby C-Hawk » Fri Dec 29, 2017 5:27 pm

Tell me where to mail my money. I don't think we have to kill that many and they will leave. They are not stupid. In fact, instead of racing out and filling a quota the first day of a permit, it should be a long steady harassing process, with lots of noise and misses. Just keep them moving, burning energy, and never let them rest.

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