CORMORANTS!!

Share info on fishing Champlain.
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Sawyer
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Re: CORMORANTS!!

Postby Sawyer » Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:07 pm

Reelax and i have the same idea. We get all our boats and do a bush to Canada.
The down side is when you start hunting them in Canada they will come down on the US side were they are safe.
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C-Hawk
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Re: CORMORANTS!!

Postby C-Hawk » Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:12 pm

Vtmopar wrote:It will probably never happen on this side of the border.
Too many liberals.

Don't think that it was our liberals that created this mess. Also being from Mass, I guess that I would consider myself a liberal, but I would not think twice about blasting the crap out of every cormorant I saw.
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BottomDollar
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Re: CORMORANTS!!

Postby BottomDollar » Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:34 am

Vtmopar wrote:It will probably never happen on this side of the border.
Too many liberals.


I would hardly call Quebec or Canada less politically "liberal."

It's true that the Migratory Bird Treaty Act is currently out of date, but it saved many species from certain extinction. USF&W has the means and authority to control the birds, they just need to make it happen.
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Captain Paul
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Re: CORMORANTS!!

Postby Captain Paul » Thu Jul 20, 2017 1:42 pm

Xcalibur wrote:As a Canadian, maybe your politics is not my business, but as a fellow fisherman who enjoys very much your fishery, my thoughts/suggestion to get some input to Washington, are the Boat/Outboard/Equipment OEM Lobbyist involved, such as Mercury, Trophy, G3, Lund, Garmin, Lowrance, etc who benefit from the fishing industry. Does anyone on the site have personal connections ?
Read the update on Canadian Bill 205, see url below
http://www.ontla.on.ca/web/bills/bills_ ... illID=4026


This is great news that should help us be able to get something done here
karl
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Re: CORMORANTS!!

Postby karl » Sat Jul 29, 2017 7:35 pm

I thought their preferred food was yellow perch. But the way the way they have ruined islands is disgraceful. They may be endangered in some areas, but are just rats on Champlain. Oil their eggs, offer a $1.00 bounty...whatever.

No idea where the federal injunction came from, but sounds like a typical 9th Circuit decision, most of which are reversed...
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BottomDollar
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Re: CORMORANTS!!

Postby BottomDollar » Sun Jul 30, 2017 8:40 am

karl wrote:
No idea where the federal injunction came from, but sounds like a typical 9th Circuit decision, most of which are reversed...



"On September 4, 2001, Bates was nominated by President George W. Bush to a seat on the United States District Court for the District of Columbia, vacated by Stanley S. Harris. He was confirmed by the United States Senate on December 11, 2001, and received his commission on December 14, 2001."

More than 99% of the 9th circuit court decisions stand. Only 0.106% of all decisions go to the Supreme Court, where many are in fact reversed across all circuit court decisions. In the case of the 9th circuit, that's 80% of 0.106%.

All that said, this particular judge is not politicizing this issue. He's interpreting the law as written after reviewing a challenge to control efforts. The ball is in USF&W's court and it's up to them to demonstrate why we need control measures. That's where pressure should be applied, and no amount of blaming political adversaries will change those facts.
septageguy
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Re: CORMORANTS!!

Postby septageguy » Mon Jul 31, 2017 7:38 am

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tamiron
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Re: CORMORANTS!!

Postby tamiron » Thu Aug 03, 2017 7:14 pm

septageguy wrote:http://www.anglersmail.co.uk/news/cormorant-control-adviser-jobs-75241?utm_source=l.facebook.com&utm_medium=referral


If there are 37,000 cormorants and the law allows for culling 3,000, what does that do to the population? If the goal were ZERO population growth, what would the cull level be? How about 5% reduction per year, or 10% reduction per year? It seems that more info is required before we can push for different limits. Then, population estimates can drive culling for the future!
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jimbow
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Re: CORMORANTS!!

Postby jimbow » Fri Aug 04, 2017 7:00 am

If the cormorants are so endangered why don't they come to Champlain and "capture" them to transplant them like they have with wolves and other "endangered" species in other areas :!: . Put them where they are not so "concentrated"....It should be easy to "capture" them here. Wave a salmon in the air and they will come in like flies on ........ :twisted: But seriously, it should be easy to get the birds while nesting on the islands....From what I know (could be wrong) but they aren't even a "Native" species to N.Y. or Vt. ... :x I thought they originally came from south east Asia...The Loon and mergansers are the native species...not CORMORANTS, at least not around here...I believe the western Great Lakes has a few Double Crested bird that MAY be native, but I believe even those may have be "transplants". They won't stock certain types of fish in lakes (Walleye, trout) because they aren't "native" so what is all the excitement about this EVASIVE "rat bird" :?: . They spend millions on campaigns to eliminate or slow down evasive plant, insect, animal and other aquatic species (gobie, asian carp) yet they protect this EVASIVE species....I'm confused???? :evil: Sorry, I'm done with my rant now :mrgreen: :roll: :( :!:
mspgh
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Re: CORMORANTS!!

Postby mspgh » Fri Aug 18, 2017 6:09 pm

I have seen 100's more cormorants this year in the IS than ever before. The size of the flocks are amazing and horrible...only going to get worse if there isn't a policy change soon...
Mr. Gill
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Re: CORMORANTS!!

Postby Mr. Gill » Fri Aug 18, 2017 7:40 pm

I don't know about Champlain but cormorants are native to the Great Lakes. From the journal of Great Lakes research:
"Double-crested cormorants (Phalacrocorax auritus) have long and often been implicated in having detrimental effects on fisheries. Research has shown that the main components of cormorant diets vary significantly among forage, invasive, or economically important fish species. This study builds on previous work in the north basin of Lake Michigan by focusing on cormorant diet composition at their only significant nesting colony in the southern basin at East Chicago, Indiana where cormorant diet has been unstudied. Regurgitated pellets were collected from the colony and diagnostic bones were used to elucidate diet composition. Alewife (Alosa pseudoharengus), round goby (Neogobius melanostomus), Lepomis spp., white perch (Morone americana) and yellow perch (Perca flavescens) were the most frequently found prey items depending on cormorant feeding period. Invasive species, most notably alewife, round goby, and white perch, contributed over 80% and 90% of the diet of cormorants by biomass and number, respectively. No salmonine species were detected suggesting that negative effects on this important fishery would likely occur only via direct competition for prey (e.g., alewife). Predation on yellow perch, which occurred mainly prior to and during the perch spawning season (i.e., of age-1 and older individuals), may warrant further study to quantify the effects on the local yellow perch population. However, because yellow perch abundance is thought to be currently limited by poor recruitment at age-0, these results do not support the active management of the cormorants at this colony to protect or recover local fisheries.
Mr. Gill
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Re: CORMORANTS!!

Postby Mr. Gill » Fri Aug 18, 2017 7:48 pm

A real good article about cormorants in Lake Ontario Outdoors:
[/url]http://www.lakeontariooutdoors.com/stories/news-story/double-crested-cormorants-update[/url]
Off season
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Re: CORMORANTS!!

Postby Off season » Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:32 am

Trap some raccoons Live, transport to the diffrent Islands , they will eat their eggs. Don't ask Permission, beg forgiveness!
"OFF SEASON"
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Captain Paul
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Re: CORMORANTS!!

Postby Captain Paul » Tue Aug 22, 2017 5:11 pm

Mr. Gill wrote:I don't know about Champlain but cormorants are native to the Great Lakes. From the journal of Great Lakes research:
"Double-crested cormorants (Phalacrocorax auritus) have long and often been implicated in having detrimental effects on fisheries. Research has shown that the main components of cormorant diets vary significantly among forage, invasive, or economically important fish species. This study builds on previous work in the north basin of Lake Michigan by focusing on cormorant diet composition at their only significant nesting colony in the southern basin at East Chicago, Indiana where cormorant diet has been unstudied. Regurgitated pellets were collected from the colony and diagnostic bones were used to elucidate diet composition. Alewife (Alosa pseudoharengus), round goby (Neogobius melanostomus), Lepomis spp., white perch (Morone americana) and yellow perch (Perca flavescens) were the most frequently found prey items depending on cormorant feeding period. Invasive species, most notably alewife, round goby, and white perch, contributed over 80% and 90% of the diet of cormorants by biomass and number, respectively. No salmonine species were detected suggesting that negative effects on this important fishery would likely occur only via direct competition for prey (e.g., alewife). Predation on yellow perch, which occurred mainly prior to and during the perch spawning season (i.e., of age-1 and older individuals), may warrant further study to quantify the effects on the local yellow perch population. However, because yellow perch abundance is thought to be currently limited by poor recruitment at age-0, these results do not support the active management of the cormorants at this colony to protect or recover local fisheries.


This study is a lot different than the study on Young Island flock on Lake Champlain that study showed that 75 % of there diet was Yellow Perch and the rest being a wide Variety of other fish. The study on the flock on Four Brothers Island showed there diet was made up of 50 % Alwife and Smelt and the rest a variety of other fish . Either way those of us that fish Lake Champlain have seen the devastation caused from these birds first hand and have seen them feed on newly stocked Brown Trout and Salmon .
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jimbow
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Re: CORMORANTS!!

Postby jimbow » Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:13 pm

The problem with these "studies", in my opinion, is the time they are conducted. The make up of the birds diet could change drastically as the year progresses. There was another member that stated the stocking is done weeks before the cormorants arrive, what about the time they leave?? Yet several other members state they have seen the cormorants eat the newly stocked fish...Not to cast doubt on any members but who's telling the truth or did that one member just go by "data" proved by F & W resources??? My gut feeling is the eye witnesses seeing them eat the "stockers" are more reliable than "data".

The cormorants don't have an arrival/departure dates cut in stone, with warm weather in the spring or fall it can change dramatically I would think. Hence the likelihood they just might be around at the time of the stocking occurs in the spring or fall. That's when biologists need to take the census of the birds eating habits or as soon as they start to appear or leave the lake to see what they are really eating. Last year I witnessed a "raft" of the birds that stretched from just above Diamond Island all the way down to the main bay in Westport. There were THOUSANDS of birds feeding there for 3 days I was at my friend's place. Did anyone else witness this event around that time??? It was in late October (2016). I wonder if there was there any stocking being done then by any chance or did a school of "shakers" become the meal for these hungry birds.

The amount of birds that are multiplying WITHOUT any real natural enemies to speak of and no man made interference is staggering. Even if there diet is say less than 15% "stockers", just the number of birds allowing to make it to maturity will have a devastating effect. Again, we need to keep pressure on the "Feds" or State agencies to do some type of comprehensive studies to prove what WE already know that the birds have a BIG impact on Lake Champlain's fisheries.

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