NK 28 single hooks?

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Dodger
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NK 28 single hooks?

Post by Dodger »

Not sure if this is the right place to put this?
A friend who moved south gave me a bunch of NK 28's. There were no hooks on them as he brought them back up on a plane.
I prefer single hooks. Does anyone use single hooks on their 28's? I am basicaly looking for a size that works well. Preferably a Gamakatsu (my favorite) size?
I understand that I will be watching the action in the water first, but want to shorten up the search.
Thanks in advance.
Richard
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4cs
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Re: NK 28 single hooks?

Post by 4cs »

Hey Richard

I haven't changed any over but I believe the NK28's are like 3 3/4" long and that would call for a 3/0 size single hook.

Pat

Sorry guys I made a mistake when I read the chart, it calls for a 3/0 size siwash hook.
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Dodger
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Re: NK 28 single hooks?

Post by Dodger »

Thanks Pat.
I've thought about switching out the NK 28's and some Lake O spoons to singles.
When I switch out the smaller spoons I use the width of two of the flat treble hooks, for a guage, and match a single siwash, just inside the two trebles. The action & production matches nicely. When I get to the bigger spoons, and use the same "guage", the length of the shank seems excessive?
Do you think a 3/0 would present too long of a "bait" for Champ?
Thanks again,
Richard
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4cs
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Re: NK 28 single hooks?

Post by 4cs »

Richard

It's hard to say but you could always go with the 3/0 and if the action is not to your liking then drop down to a 2/0.

Pat
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Dodger
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Re: NK 28 single hooks?

Post by Dodger »

Thanks Pat.
I'm going to give both the 2 & 3/0 a try..
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tamiron
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Re: NK 28 single hooks?

Post by tamiron »

Pat:

I have no idea of the chart that you used and certainly am not an expert on treble hooks, but let's see if we can add anything to this discussion.


Many years ago when Pirate (Joe Riefer - deceased) and NK (Pat DeStafan - deceased) used the exact same design, they came out with a standard 2X - 1/0 Eagle Claw treble hook. Joe was the fisherman and designer and Pat was the machinist and tool maker. Both spoons could be pulled a "little faster" than a Sutton.

Then in the interest of more speed tolerance, NK went to a 3X – 1/0 treble for more speed tolerance (i.e. more weight). I have even seen 4X in a 1/0 and 3X - in a 2/0 on some NK. Joe Riefer sold out to Joe Renosky and I lost track of what modifications Renosky made to the Pirates.

What does this all mean?

SMO, I would first determine a presentation speed and then begin to alter the size and weight of the hooks until I found just the right combination for the best action. Then let the fish tell you if you are right! This goes for singles, doubles and trebles. The surface area of the hook and its weight will have a greater effect at lower speeds. The spoon itself will contribute more at higher speeds.

Hope this helps! / Jim
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4cs
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Re: NK 28 single hooks?

Post by 4cs »

Jim

Not an hook expert either, LOL but used the recommended hook size chart from Lakeland. Thought this would be a good starting point and as you said the best way is try different sizes to see which will give you the presentation you and the fish are looking for.

Pat
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Re: NK 28 single hooks?

Post by Dodger »

Thanks Jim and again, Pat.
Well I guess my question was (is) too vague, or not enough info given (by me) for a short answer.
Some good info, Jim.
Re: typical SOG, On Winnipesaukee (where I keep my boat most of the summer) I typically troll hardware between 1.8 & 2.4, depending on water temp & what the fish want. The NK's I mentioned, would be used on my 3 or 4 trips to Champ each year. Typically, we troll a little faster up there. Maybe 2.4 - 2.8.
Jim, Re: the speed tolerance you mentioned with the heavier guage hooks, Would you say that on Champ, with lighter leaders than say Lake O, that one may expect less hook ups than on a lighter guage hook?
Seems to me, that it is kind of a catch 22, where you need the right presentation of the spoon & hook to entice the fish to bite, and yet too heavy a diameter hook with too light of a leader may not penetrate the fish's mouth as easily?
Where I only get to Champ a few times a year (long ride) it is a little harder to take the time to experiment with presentations. Although I will make some effort towards doing so.
I have the Honey Bees, Crazy Ivans, Needlefish, (no hook changes necessary). Then I use many Top Guns & Speedy Shiners, Mooselooks, where I typically change the trebles to a size 2, Gamakatsu.
"Too many lures - too little time" ;)
Thanks again,
Richard
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tamiron
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Re: NK 28 single hooks?

Post by tamiron »

Jim, Re: the speed tolerance you mentioned with the heavier guage hooks, Would you say that on Champ, with lighter leaders than say Lake O, that one may expect less hook ups than on a lighter guage hook?
I really think sharpness is far more important than gauge. A fine wire hook seems to become dull more easily. When they are all sharp, I would imagine that the fine wire is a bit better but I wouldn't sacrifice sharpness for gauge. Check out the videos below.
http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=how ... &FORM=VDRE
Seems to me, that it is kind of a catch 22, where you need the right presentation of the spoon & hook to entice the fish to bite, and yet too heavy a diameter hook with too light of a leader may not penetrate the fish's mouth as easily?
I would think that lines on both lakes should be close to the same. Champlain's fish will get bigger but the proper setup will handle most fish, if played properly.
I have seen and taken Kings on some really fine line, but that was only when I really didn't care if I landed them or not.

Where I only get to Champ a few times a year (long ride) it is a little harder to take the time to experiment with presentations. Although I will make some effort towards doing so.
The experimenting that we are talking about can be done on a lake without fish !!! Testing the lures and hardware and line and speed etc. don't require fish to tell what happens when you change something. But with this knowledge you then go to fish and find out what they prefer but now you have the advantage of knowing how to change things and what will happen.
I have the Honey Bees, Crazy Ivans, Needlefish, (no hook changes necessary). Then I use many Top Guns & Speedy Shiners, Mooselooks, where I typically change the trebles to a size 2, Gamakatsu.
I know a good fisherman who uses one new Gamakatsu per fish ???? Sorry for the delay and hope this all helps. /Jim
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Dodger
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Re: NK 28 single hooks?

Post by Dodger »

tamiron wrote:
Jim, Re: the speed tolerance you mentioned with the heavier guage hooks, Would you say that on Champ, with lighter leaders than say Lake O, that one may expect less hook ups than on a lighter guage hook?
I really think sharpness is far more important than gauge. A fine wire hook seems to become dull more easily. When they are all sharp, I would imagine that the fine wire is a bit better but I wouldn't sacrifice sharpness for gauge. Check out the videos below.
http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=how ... &FORM=VDRE
Thanks, I will check out the videos. My question about guages had to do with the different guages you mentioned on the Pirate, NK's & other trebles you have seen. I assumed that they affected the presentation? I agree that sharpness is far more critical than diameter. That is why I'm sold on the Gama's.
Seems to me, that it is kind of a catch 22, where you need the right presentation of the spoon & hook to entice the fish to bite, and yet too heavy a diameter hook with too light of a leader may not penetrate the fish's mouth as easily?
I would think that lines on both lakes should be close to the same. Champlain's fish will get bigger but the proper setup will handle most fish, if played properly.
I have seen and taken Kings on some really fine line, but that was only when I really didn't care if I landed them or not.

I assume that you mean Lake O's fish will get bigger? :? I typically use heavier line on O than Champ. I totally agree with "playing properly" and definitely proper drag setting. Those spring kings can get pretty crazy, and later on the same kings can be pretty powerful. Of course fleas are a consideration on line diameter. Unfortunately that difference may become moot, if they proliferate Champlain. Hopefully not!
Where I only get to Champ a few times a year (long ride) it is a little harder to take the time to experiment with presentations. Although I will make some effort towards doing so.
The experimenting that we are talking about can be done on a lake without fish !!! Testing the lures and hardware and line and speed etc. don't require fish to tell what happens when you change something. But with this knowledge you then go to fish and find out what they prefer but now you have the advantage of knowing how to change things and what will happen.
Excellent point, which I will follow.
I have the Honey Bees, Crazy Ivans, Needlefish, (no hook changes necessary). Then I use many Top Guns & Speedy Shiners, Mooselooks, where I typically change the trebles to a size 2, Gamakatsu.
I know a good fisherman who uses one new Gamakatsu per fish ???? Sorry for the delay and hope this all helps. /Jim
One Gamakatsu per fish sounds a little extreme to me? I do change hooks if I find that they are dull. Losing fish to dull hooks, is not an option for me.
The delay was well worth it Jim. I really appreciate your feedback.
Thanks much,
Richard
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fishhuntadventure
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Re: NK 28 single hooks?

Post by fishhuntadventure »

Dodger wrote:...I agree that sharpness is far more critical than diameter. That is why I'm sold on the Gama's...I know a good fisherman who uses one new Gamakatsu per fish ???? Sorry for the delay and hope this all helps. /Jim...One Gamakatsu per fish sounds a little extreme to me? I do change hooks if I find that they are dull. Losing fish to dull hooks, is not an option for me...
While I agree that Gamakatsu is a really great new hook I don't change hooks most often- I sharpen them.

I use Gamakatsu on spoons and Gamakatsus or Eagle Claw Lazer Sharps for crawler harnesses and stick baits. When the points get dull I think a slightly triangular-shaped knife edge (sharpened with diamond or a Luhr Jensen file and honed with a piece of ceramic) works as good or better than a new hook.
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tamiron
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Re: NK 28 single hooks?

Post by tamiron »

While I agree that Gamakatsu is a really great new hook I don't change hooks most often- I sharpen them.

I use Gamakatsu on spoons and Gamakatsus or Eagle Claw Lazer Sharps for crawler harnesses and stick baits. When the points get dull I think a slightly triangular-shaped knife edge (sharpened with diamond or a Luhr Jensen file and honed with a piece of ceramic) works as good or better than a new hook.
Agreed. The only times I change a hook is for action and bending. When a hook is bent, not intentionally offset, but actually bent, I immediately replace. Otherwise I will always sharpen, (every chance I get!) Lures do not go into the water without a quick test and a few strokes of a flat file.
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