8/10/11 Wednesday Port Douglas (Digital Auto pilot test)

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Dockside
Posts: 316
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2011 10:01 pm

Re: 8/10/11 Wednesday Port Douglas (Digital Auto pilot test

Post by Dockside »

This is to much info for me :D

GPS 2.7 (check)

Fish finder tells me where feeding fish are. (check)

Play color game with spoons. (check)

Play some Chicago on my Ipod. (check)

Fish on!

We really only fish 20-60' out of the whole water collum?

Why do I need a probe for that?

digitroll (ron)
Posts: 3213
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2011 12:58 pm

Re: 8/10/11 Wednesday Port Douglas (Digital Auto pilot test

Post by digitroll (ron) »

A probe is a must have for Ontario. Used one for 27 years. Especially temp. to rule out all the warm water to start King fishing as stated by Dan Keating.

Here:

The down speed is huge with currents for Lake Champlain as well as the Big O. Typically we go 2.7 GPS one way and the other way for example with the current we maintain the same speed. In many cases the lure stalls out and the fish are unresponsive. How many times have you heard we only caught them going one way from boats not running a probe?

A probe solves the current issue in any direction once the hit speed for the day is found. Speed can be more important than temp. even in January.

R
Last edited by digitroll (ron) on Mon Sep 05, 2011 5:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.

digitroll (ron)
Posts: 3213
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2011 12:58 pm

Re: 8/10/11 Wednesday Port Douglas (Digital Auto pilot test

Post by digitroll (ron) »

More head spinners from my 2005 cheat note archive on my hard drive:

Borrowed from at the Oak:

Part 1 speed over ground:

Bob had some very good info today for the newer guys chasing our Eastern end Salmon. In front of Oswego our lake flows from West to East towards the 1000 islands, when we troll East we generally need to troll faster SOG (Speed Over Ground) to make up for these currents. Without an underwater camera, a temp. probe or a good judgement of cable angles we often find the greener guys trolling at the wrong speeds, (at least half the time) sure you will come across a fish at any given time that will grab your offering, but to stay consistent we need our speeds catering to our offerings at all times (meat presentations from 2.2 to 2.6 and when trolling attractor/flies from 2.5 to over 3 at times) this just as a common rule. While getting updates from Bob he is always very particular about his speeds in certain directions, it pays to be critical, Bob is one of our top boats in the area.


Part 2 Probe advice: From "The Troutman" John (a post) one of my favorites:

Slept in, it was nice. Simply updating...I'm sure you've heard, the typical post derby surge in staging ledge action is underway. Basically, it's "pick your water "...50 to 110 fow. I've been parked around 80 to 105 fow...early and late the matures are shooting and milling 40 to 70 down...most of the time hitting 4-10 ft. back for me on Troutman...a mixture of Northern King Mags in "O" Glow Frog [which is a flo green/flo chartreuse yellow top with diagonal glo/green prism tape diagonal with a completely taped glo pearl cup side] mixed in with the "O" Frogs are Opti - Dodgers with various glo pattern G-Flys. The dipsey's are rigged with same lures and let out at a ratio of 2 1/2 ft. out to each ft. down with proper speed to swing these "heavy" dodgers and put a tight wiggle on the NK mags. The read on the current is the trick and if you are having trouble getting hits right now it's the current read. Last night it seemed that some boats were "dead" near me when rods were poppin' like mad...the same rip is back that ran passed the point before the rough weather set in last week...troll east, a little north east, then swerve south east keeping group speed at 2.0 to 2.3 kts over the ground. Pay attention as any breeze, loss of rpm or throttle change this westward flow will kill boat momentum and lures will stall out. No bags no plates, and let 'er rip going east These inquisitive milling sharks will rip...save #'s of tight pods of fish and stay on 'em, don't wander around. Stay over shark pods they turn on and off be on 'em when they go nuts! West troll see that a slow idle your ground speed runs up to 2.8 to 3.0 + even with west breeze hitting you head on...the current of top water is wisking you along over the deeper water, slow down, bag it, zig-zag north west, then south west, get speed down to low to mid 2.4 to 2.0. I use a Moor Subtrol 900, then cannonball speed temp unit shows you the "hit" speed each way. This unit is the best way to read current and make adjustments and nail fish in tough current/wind conditions. In last three days the Rick Pier /Betty Pier party from New Jersey fish morning and evening trips and averaged a mature an hour...breaking it down, they fished 24 hours total and boated 23 for 30 kings on the line. Rick landed a beefy 26 lber on his Lamniglas 8' three piece graphite salmon "pack" rod with his left handed counter reel. Betty Pier, at 91 years old, boated kings to 24 lbs...quite possibly the eldest angler to land a Point Breeze king this and many other years... See ya, Troutman !!

Gecha (Gerry)
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Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:26 pm
Species: whatever crazy enough to bite
Location: Montreal

Re: 8/10/11 Wednesday Port Douglas (Digital Auto pilot test

Post by Gecha (Gerry) »

Hi Ron,
Can you shed some details on your new autopilot.
This nice addon seems to become very popular lately, and it is something I am considering for next year.
Gecha (Gerry North of the Border)

digitroll (ron)
Posts: 3213
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2011 12:58 pm

Re: 8/10/11 Wednesday Port Douglas (Digital Auto pilot test

Post by digitroll (ron) »

Sure Gerry. I have kinda beaten the temp/speed probe to death here. :D

I have had a Ray Marine sportpilot plus for 5 seasons. They no longer make this analog "old school" autopilot in 5 years. They came out with the X5 digital version with the computer 3 years ago. They improved it this year with ball bearings (renamed the X5-R in 2011) in the drive system. Well, I couldn't take it any longer and had to update. I have only had it out once in the last month reported here, but boy is it sweet! I have been chompin on the bit to get out again to give it more time on the water. The X-5 will work on either rack or rotary mechanically steered boats. The support for Ray Marine is in New Hampshire and I have to say it's the best support you will find anywhere for your product. I have a 3 year warranty. There has been some extreme interest in this system and I know of 5 guys taking the plunge to buy one.

Even with 3 guys in my boat including myself when we hook up on doubles on kings at the Bar in the Spring the driver can just walk away from the wheel to help move rods around and net the doubles. It''s awesome!

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vtfishin
Posts: 412
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 10:16 pm
Species: Salmon, Steel, eyes, bass...

Re: 8/10/11 Wednesday Port Douglas (Digital Auto pilot test

Post by vtfishin »

Just for clarification, we are talking relative speed here right? ie, the lure is tied to the boat so it has to equilbrate at the same speed (over ground) as the boat at some point. So what the probe is measuring is the speed of the water moving past the lure, not speed of the lure over ground (which is what the GPS is measuring on the surface. ...and speed of the water moving past the lure is what affects the action of the lure... ie if the boat is going 2.7 over land and the current is moving 2.7 then the lure will essentially be seeing a net zero speed and no action....Right?

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Reelax
Site Admin
Posts: 4661
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2011 7:27 pm
Species: Salmon, steelhead, brown trout
Location: Fletcher, Vt

Re: 8/10/11 Wednesday Port Douglas (Digital Auto pilot test

Post by Reelax »

vtfishin wrote:Just for clarification, we are talking relative speed here right? ie, the lure is tied to the boat so it has to equilbrate at the same speed (over ground) as the boat at some point. So what the probe is measuring is the speed of the water moving past the lure, not speed of the lure over ground (which is what the GPS is measuring on the surface. ...and speed of the water moving past the lure is what affects the action of the lure... ie if the boat is going 2.7 over land and the current is moving 2.7 then the lure will essentially be seeing a net zero speed and no action....Right?
Yes!

Gecha (Gerry)
Posts: 3596
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:26 pm
Species: whatever crazy enough to bite
Location: Montreal

Re: 8/10/11 Wednesday Port Douglas (Digital Auto pilot test

Post by Gecha (Gerry) »

Thanks Ron for your reply on the autopilot..... Something else to put on my Christmas List ;)
Gecha (Gerry North of the Border)

digitroll (ron)
Posts: 3213
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2011 12:58 pm

Re: 8/10/11 Wednesday Port Douglas (Digital Auto pilot test

Post by digitroll (ron) »

Vt fishin,

This is the best explanation I found to date: The key is the "hit speed reading on your probe each direction with tough wind and current conditions" When you have these conditions to contend with having a probe is "priceless". :mrgreen: Optimum conditions sure anyone can catch fish during a decent bite window. It's when conditions are less than optimal is when having a probe is a leg up.

Capt. John (Troutman):

The read on the current is the trick and if you are having trouble getting hits right now it's the current read. Last night it seemed that some boats were "dead" near me when rods were poppin' like mad...the same rip is back that ran passed the point before the rough weather set in last week...troll east, a little north east, then swerve south east keeping group speed at 2.0 to 2.3 kts over the ground. Pay attention as any breeze, loss of rpm or throttle change this westward flow will kill boat momentum and lures will stall out. No bags no plates, and let 'er rip going east These inquisitive milling sharks will rip...save #'s of tight pods of fish and stay on 'em, don't wander around. Stay over shark pods they turn on and off be on 'em when they go nuts! West troll see that a slow idle your ground speed runs up to 2.8 to 3.0 + even with west breeze hitting you head on...the current of top water is wisking you along over the deeper water, slow down, bag it, zig-zag north west, then south west, get speed down to low to mid 2.4 to 2.0. I use a Moor Subtrol 900, then cannonball speed temp unit shows you the "hit" speed each way. This unit is the best way to read current and make adjustments and nail fish in tough current/wind conditions.

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Reel Delight (Walt)
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Species: Trout, Salmon, & other
Location: Crown Point, NY & Palmetto, FL

Re: 8/10/11 Wednesday Port Douglas (Digital Auto pilot test

Post by Reel Delight (Walt) »

I never had a probe until the middle of this summer. I had read a number of different posts & articles on depth/temp./speed probes and started researching. The Fish Hawk probes caught my eye and I was interested while my wallet was saying na na. So I told one of my fishing partners that he should buy the Fish Hawk TD as I figured then we could share. I guess he was easily interested too; because he purchased the Fish Hawk X4 for his boat. He told me I could buy a transducer sending unit for my boat and then he could bring his X4 & probe along on my boat. Gee my wallet was still saying "na na". Anyway I just had to break down and let some moths out when I found a good deal on a TD unit.

For comparisons... I like the TD because it is so portable and a lot less $ while it will not give you any speed. The TD is also great in that it can be used to see what depth your divers or lead core lines are really reaching. I have not really used my TD to do this as yet. It is true that you must pull the TD back out of the water to read it; but the readings are locked in to review again until you reset the TD.
Now The X4 has the wonderful feature to read speed at your downrigger ball and you can have continuous readings display onboard while you troll all day. The TD can only be used on your downrigger and can't be used to check depth of your divers or lures. The X4 probe alone is more expensive than the TD unit. My friend won't fish for any extended time period with his X4 deployed because he would hate to lose it. Heck I was a bit worried to lose my TD to the lake Gods, so I put a second safety line and swivel on it to attach to my DR cable just in case Elbert fixed slide failed. Yes, I do have that kind of luck.

Now neither of us can say that we have caught anymore fish since we purchased our Fish Hawks. We have learned a few things about how the temperature can change quickly and not always as we would expect. We have caught Salmon & Lake Trout outside of the desired temp. range. The jury & verdict is still out for us, especially since fishing has been slow since we both purchased our Fish Hawks in August. If I were to do it over again, I would still buy the TD because my pockebook & mind can't justify the X4 price, but if I hit the lottery or find a fantastic deal... hmmm maybe.
Retired & ready to fish!
Arima Sea Ranger "Reel Delight"
Past President of the Lake George Fishing Alliance
member of the US Power Squadron and USN Vet.
Formerly AKA "Fishing Eagle"

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