Bait/depth for salmon

[tmcaul]

The day of the Frostbite tournament we marked a lot of bait and fish in 90-100' in Whallons. On our December outings there we again marked a lot of bait and fish but deeper, around 100-120'.

My questions are: 1) Are the fish we are marking likely lakers at this depth (which I perhaps mistakenly believe to be too deep for salmon)? 2) If these marks are lakers, may salmon be found higher up in the water column foraging on bait that may have strayed from the bait ball/mass (even though we may be seeing no marks higher up in the water)?

Thanks for any response and a happy holiday to all.

Tom

[Cas]

I remember seeing marks deeper like that as well, we dropped down a little trying, but didn't get any down that deep. I think they were rather scattered. We caught some down 50 or so (if memory serves) but I also saw one jump clear out of the water, so they were also on the surface. I don't have a temp probe, but I'm thinking in the time frame of the shootout, there's certainly much less variation in temperature throughout the water column. No hard evidence of this, just speculation.

[troutcrazy]

From the reports, it sounded like salmon were being caught deep, like 90'.

I saw those marks, too.

[yankee roller]

I fished the Converse to Whallons area for the next few days after the event with a buddy and can confirm we caught salmon down to 110' while we were catching small lakers at 60'.

Update - it was 52+ at surface and 51+ degree's 100 down. Most of the salmon we caught we in location to bait as one would expect. Whether the bait was at 60 early or down 100-120 later in the day.

[tamiron]

I fished the Converse to Whallons area for the next few days after the event with a buddy and can confirm we caught salmon down to 110' while we were catching small lakers at 60'.

This is the main reason I asked for this sub-forum!

Some Salmon are definitely this deep all year long. If there is forage down that deep and the water is warmer than 42 degrees for King Salmon, 48 degrees for lakers, 55 degrees for browns and whatever the preferred temperature for atlantics is, my guess would be between 42 and 48 degrees, there will be fish, the forage will be larger and they will become aggressive at some point. But if you are marking fish, don't leave to find fish, unless you are constrained by available time.

I truly believe that "the apparent temporary absence" of fish this summer was because the fish and forage were so much deeper than the past few years./ jim

[nhjim]

2 weekends ago fished same area. alot bait 100+ riggers at 65 and 95 with free sliders on both caught salmon at all depths but would say more came on the sliders.pulled 6 colors lead for a time only 1 small laker on that. slide diver was quite all morning so pulled it and stacked another rigger rod. still have to look around 1 weekend found active fish out in the abyss the next found alot feeding in 100- 120 fow.

[jimbow]

When in doubt, drop a line line to where YOU ARE MARKING FISH (or bait).... as I said in another thread, not all deep fish are Lakers...You are only investing a little time, if you hook up and it is a Laker it doesn't mean they ALL are..if you catch more than one you most likely have your answer. However...To improve your odds of catching a salmon, put a slider on to cover more water, that too will indicate where the salmon are...high or low But ALWAYS put a line where the fish ARE...not where you think they should be

[C-Hawk]

I would not discourage anyone from fishing deep, but for the the sake of this conversation let's call "deep" anything over 90 ? I routinly fish 90 feet all summer long over deep water to avoid Lakers and usually catch a few nice fish. However, in my experience this is desperation fishing. I have never had more than a 3 fish day at that depth and I would equate it with searching for that trophy buck. Deeper, my odds go down from that. When you see fish at 125, in bait, many times these fish are inactive or resting. I have spent hours trying to entice a bite from deep , suspended fish and I concider fishing for salmon at depth a waste of time, especially for beginners. Use your time instead to scout active shallower fish.
I disagree with Jim that what happened in the Broad Lake this summer was a result of fish being deeper, because I gave it hell at depths over 90 for parts of many days. The cormorants were defiantly a factor, and we can't loose site of that fact.
I have caught salmon on bottom in 125, and I also have heard of salmon being caught that deep this fall, but if you go there and don't score after changing a few colors, give up and go scouting, any time of year.

[BottomDollar]

I've spoken with a couple of folks at launches who've caught white perch south of the Essex ferry and down deep, over 100'. So keep in mind that some of those smaller marks could be white perch or whitefish/cisco down deep and not necessarily salmonids at all. But, as many here have mentioned, it's always worth dropping your gear down to see if there are larger predators feeding when you see bait on the sonar.

And I always like to try to pull my junk through from another direction if you're seeing marks but not getting releases.

Great new forum section, thanks guys.

[tamiron]

I disagree with Jim that what happened in the Broad Lake this summer was a result of fish being deeper, because I gave it hell at depths over 90 for parts of many days. The cormorants were defiantly a factor, and we can't loose site of that fact.
I have caught salmon on bottom in 125, and I also have heard of salmon being caught that deep this fall, but if you go there and don't score after changing a few colors, give up and go scouting, any time of year.

C-Hawk:

I HATE CORMORANTS !!!

I wasn't there, so your experience carries a lot more weight and accuracy than mine on this subject.

But fishing deep is not fishing temperature, bottom structure, current, forage, speed, etc. We need to work together to eliminate as many non-contributing factors as possible. As I did once before on Champlain, I would like to create a TAMIRON tester team for next year that will be my eyes and ears who agree to share results, both positive and negative but not location. I will create a thread on this sub-forum asking for candidates/volunteers after finishing my thoughts on this..

[Reelax]

I try to keep at least one spoon just above the bait, no matter how deep it is... Like C-hawk said it like trophy hunting. Never know when you will pick up a beast from way down there... I think they are there, they are just less aggressive when this deep IMHO.


Good subject...

[jimbow]

I try to keep at least one spoon just above the bait, no matter how deep it is... Like C-hawk said it like trophy hunting. Never know when you will pick up a beast from way down there... I think they are there, they are just less aggressive when this deep IMHO.


Good subject...

Both (C-Hawk & Reelax) have great points...I myself rather catch a couple QUALITY fish than a bunch of dinks..So searching the deep water can improve that, especially in the warm water months. However, getting them to hit is another thing all together. I tend to troll slower in the deeper water than in warmer, so if they are "resting" they might may want to take the bait anyway. Try scent additives because the light penetration is less, also try a little larger baits which have a bigger profile for them to see...I think the larger fish tend to want one good meal then a bunch of "snacks". I caught a respectable size salmon a couple years ago (in 90 fow) that had a 10" Cisco in it's belly, and it still hit my bait (# 3 Honeybee).

[tamiron]

C-Hawk:

Trolling the abyss without temperature, bait, bottom's relation to thermocline, speed at the ball is difficult if not impossible. But next year, we will greatly improve those odds with help from you and others and I still hate cormorants.

[Thorny]

Follow the BAIT! Fish can only feed where the bait is. That being said,when fish are on an active feeding cycle many injured baitfish will drift up in the zone where your higher baits are run. You won't see them on your screen. So when fish are on the bite the whole spread fires. On a tough bite when they are not aggressive you have to fish where they are. This fall I put a program of Echips and Dodgers together that fired more fish from deep water than I have ever seen before. I caught 3 salmon this fall 5-7lbs between 100 and 130ft of cable. I also fished during the transition from a low pressure system moving out and a high coming in. My least favorite conditions to fish in. We watched bait drop from 80 to 150. I chased the bait and caught my 2 deepest Salmon ever at 150ft of cable! Believe the screen and follow the bait. One more thing. This fall the Lightbite with the ultimate 7oz Conversion kit was an awesome weapon. At 150ft of braid on setting 3 it runs at 70ft. At 200 your 90plus.

Merry Christmas Everybody
Capt Thorny

[tamiron]

THORNY:

Thank you for some hard earned wisdom! Great stuff!