Is it time for high speed trolling for salmon?

[Shaye D Winds]

Hi Jim,

Very well said. I do believe that fast trolling is not necessarily a thing for the novice but I think that a seasoned fisher person could find success in it. The ability to cover more water to find fish is a big advantage on slow days or when there are few anglers out to help locate fish. I fully agree that a messed up spread with foul running spoons spinning will ruin the day. As always a great idea and I am sure with care it can be successfully executed.
Thanks Ron for ideas and for your imput Jim.

[Surprise]

A link with some Fast trolling views:

http://www.scout.com/outdoors/fish-snif ... fraternity

[tamiron]

A link with some Fast trolling views:

http://www.scout.com/outdoors/fish-snif ... fraternity

Surprise, I am not trying to shoot the messenger, but this is a hot button of mine,

This is the kind of article in MY OPINION that proves that just because something is in writing doesn't mean it's true !!

First of all, under 4MPH is not fast. Depending on whether it is GPS speed over ground or paddle wheel at the surface, speed at the ball, with or without current, weight of line, method of lure connection, etc., etc., etc., we have no idea how fast that "lifelong angler" is really going.

My bet would be that with a snap or snap swivel attached to the front ring of STANDARD BEEs or especially the new HEAVY TROLLING and CASTING BEEs, and many other standards for Champlain, a true 3 MPH is no stretch at all and in some cases, 4MPH can be achieved with heavier leaders also incorporated. So his entire review is about moderate speeds ... not fast.

Every Fly that you, Surprise, make can do a lot more if asked to. Behind spinners as attractors in front of those flies, 5 or 6 MPH, with no SPIN-OUT, can be achieved. Now that is FAST TROLLING

[Registered Kayak]

I can't imagine the impact in the rod when a big salmon hits trolling at 5 to 6, must be amazing!

[fishy1]

i have trolled in maine for bluefish at speeds above that and when the blues hit you better hang on. so your drag and line weight better be set for those speeds with a salmon also.
we had the rods in our hands when trolling for blues and we reached speeds at approx 10 mph and they would lift you right out of your seat.

[keithm87]

I had been reading about optimizers a couple weeks back on LOU, and appreciate the link to the products. I think in my world trolling at a higher speed would be most useful on breezy days when I have trouble keeping a course going 1.5-2.5. from past experience it is very rough on rods going fast, what method works best when trolling at those speeds? I can't imagine pulling a slide diver at 4mph...

[voyager]

In his classic book on the subject, Streamer Fly Tying & Fishing, Col. Joe Bates discussed trolling streamers for landlocked salmon at speeds of 5 to 7 mph. Now that is fast. It is not a problem with streamers on a sinking fly line or leadcore, but could be tricky with spoons.

[tamiron]

I had been reading about optimizers a couple weeks back on LOU, and appreciate the link to the products. I think in my world trolling at a higher speed would be most useful on breezy days when I have trouble keeping a course going 1.5-2.5. from past experience it is very rough on rods going fast, what method works best when trolling at those speeds? I can't imagine pulling a slide diver at 4mph...

As the inventor ... and wanting speed 4mph or greater, I would run them close to the ball, 5 to 7 feet back. Though not necessary, look for suspended fish and do figure eights on them when you find them. This works great on staging kings in the fall. The second or third pass over them would almost always draw a strike. Keep the pattern tight .... riggers separated by 5-7 feet. What you have is a small tight school of bait fleeing for their lives!!

The alternative still wanting 4mph or greater is to run a couple (two) of riggers set at temp with lines back to suit your preference. But if you run too far back, stay straight !!!! 12 lb balls will reduce blow back.

Now, at 3 - 3.5 mph, in trailing, rough water, the Optimizers will not spin out and will put fish in your box when nothing else will! I have never used anything more effective with strong trailing seas! Takes some practice.

But .... I prefer to wait until the water calms down and I can go back to slow trolling and finding the right colors, the right presentation, the right scents, the right temperature, and semi to full aggressive fish near bait..

[tamiron]

In his classic book on the subject, Streamer Fly Tying & Fishing, Col. Joe Bates discussed trolling streamers for landlocked salmon at speeds of 5 to 7 mph. Now that is fast. It is not a problem with streamers on a sinking fly line or leadcore, but could be tricky with spoons.

Probably impossible with spoons on sinking fly line and lead core !!

[tamiron]

i have trolled in maine for bluefish at speeds above that and when the blues hit you better hang on. so your drag and line weight better be set for those speeds with a salmon also.
we had the rods in our hands when trolling for blues and we reached speeds at approx 10 mph and they would lift you right out of your seat.

One charter Captain on Lake Ontario used to put the cannon balls down 5 feet and the lines back 50 feet at 7mph, in front of the Genesee River. He called it the OPTIMIZER SHUFFLE. When a KING hit the OPTIMIZER it was more like a scene out of a horror story. That was how he ended his charters each day !!! Lots of laughs and memories.

[digitroll (ron)]

Capt. Ernie told me at ice out they used to troll at 5-6 mph and leave a wake behind their small utility boat for landlocks in NY inland waters 40 years ago. If they didn't have a wake they weren't going fast enough.

[JDK]

Flash Kings, Mooselooks, and Speedy Shiners can be trolled at a higher rate of speed. A trick we use is to put a 1/4 or 1/2 oz. keeled trolling weight about 4-6 feet in front. Troll them right in the prop wash.

[Surprise]

Hey Jim, You got me there ....I was attracted to the lure selection that he was showing as to me it's old school and can be effective.

In my day & yours too, B4, GPS, Sonar,Riggers and other toys.....
We dragged lead core, Bead Chains, cow bells, flys & lures and as far as speed, watch the bubbles pass, or a wake as Ron mentioned. We went from no salmon to having some nice ones and then as stocking of lake trout and salmon increased without lamprey treatment and horrible crash of just fish of the year and pepperoni shaped lakers. Now maybe we are in a sustained Happy Place!

I dug out some oldies. Mooselooks, Speedy Shiners, Can-Am's all could be bent to tune e'm for the boat speed of the day. We also used the larger sizes..."Big lures = Big Fish "

Also as mast side planers we used flys on mono with spinning rods with a split shot 18" up to weight it and keep debris off. Bet for sure we were going 2.8-3.2 mph

All my fishing was done in the fall cool down period from October till freeze-up as it is for me still today working in the Pool industry.

Here are some of the old workhorses. Top is our regular small speedy, then a Sutton 61 & 44 and down

image hosting 10mb limit

[tamiron]

I went back and reread my posts to make sure to see if my emotions got the best of me again. Probably so. But the definition of fast is what makes this discussion so difficult. I still maintain that that very few spoons can travel that fast without sacrificing performance and that fast is 3.5 MPH or more going with the current and measured at the ball. When I was growing up, our area of concentration was the Finger Lakes in NY, home of the flutter spoons with Suttons as the "king of the mountain". You simply cannot pull these flutter spoons fast! Sutton did make some heavier spoons like the West River and others ... not as popular with the multi-leader rig guys.

Cayuga & Seneca as the two largest, deepest and widest, seldom froze over except at the extreme North and South Ends. Wells College for girls on the East shore of Cayuga got a day off whenever the lake froze over ... a handful of times in the entire 20th century!

I don't remember when non-Native landlockeds were introduced, but they were never much of a target ... in these two lakes. Lake trout were the targeted species.

Nobody trolled for Lakers above a crawl.

Check out the Videos on the Tamiron website that pertain to how and with what a spoon is attached to your line to see the huge difference that can make in action vs. speed.

http://www.tamiron.com/Articles.asp?ID=257

[digitroll (ron)]

Some great replies and articles! Trolling fast (above 3 mph) is an experiment for the times when things are slow and the fish are scattered. The thing I take away from trying new things is the challenge of those kinds of activities. It keeps it fun trying stuff. If I did the same thing every time I went out it would get stale fast. I guess thats why I only like going out for 4 hour fishing shifts. I have never been into the long days on the water unless were tournament fishing in Lake Ontario. Those days are capped at 8 hours in good conditions. The Shootouts are perfect at 6 hours for that day. I fished the Dattilio derby a few years ago (first time in 22 years) with my brother in law we fished both days from 6 am till Noon. Hope I can go again with him but AAU basketball tournaments that weekend got in the way last year. I find it more challenging and gratifying to fish a 4 hour window then fishing 5-10 hours.